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To remind everyone after the celebrations subside to apply the same level of scrutiny to a Labour Govt as was applied to the last Tory administration?

196 replies

Axelfoleyreturns · 05/07/2024 12:02

As someone who lived through the Blair years it was not a nirvana.

There was a similar amount of cronyism in play, cabinet members who had an odd relationship with the truth (looking at Peter Mandelson here - who was reappointed despite being proven to be very untrustworthy ) and not to mention going to war based upon a document of fiction. Unchecked power, regardless of which party is in charge is never satisfactory.

And at the end of the last Labour reign there was no money left, no bankers held accountable for their stupidity because of Blair’s pandering to the city with ‘light-touch legislation’ (indeed we actually paid them and helped them save themselves) and having handed the keys to the economy to the Bank of England, no gold left because the chancellor had sold it all, and a legacy of funding facilitated by kicking the can down the road for hospitals schools in various guises including PFI. So when there are comments about austerity, the lack of access to benefits including child benefit being limited to 2 children, the closure of sure start centres and a lack of funding for councils we need to remind ourselves how this position of austerity arose - and it is not the sole fault of the Tories as much as we’d love to think. The Tories didn’t introduce tuition fees or open the borders to East Europe - a decision that cost a lot of existing UK skilled workers their jobs. Neither did they stop right to buy or build any significant amount of social housing. Blair left office and promptly became the richest ex-prime minister we’ve ever had and now heads ‘The Tony Blair Institute’ which employs more than 600 people. At least Gordon Brown had the decency to stick to his principles and seems to have lived those principles.

And before a whole load of people post GDP growth etc under the Blair years consider the impact that the world economy has had in that time. Personally I was the richest I ever was under Blair - he was cautious on taxation and I even received child benefit despite being a high earner. No one considered if this was fair under Labour - but was one of the first things to go under the Tory coalition. Maybe had Labour considered this years before it wouldn’t have been necessary to penalise the less well off or limit that benefit to 2 children. They could have introduced that change and lost no votes. No Labour administration at the time wanted to or even attempted to make ‘the rich pay’. There were many, many missed opportunities.

My point is this - scrutiny is now more important than ever as decisions are taken that affect all parts of society. Women’s rights being a key issue. Moving forward and regardless of your politics, be that person who speaks up and continues applying the same pressure for transparency and accountability as was demanded of the last administration. Labour has one chance to get this right before they lose momentum and before the county lurches to the right again.

OP posts:
Leniriefenstahl · 05/07/2024 12:05

Posters are already scrutinising labour and saying they’ll only last 4-5 years.
Why do they only have one chance when the Tories had multiple and constantly fucked up ?

DustyLee123 · 05/07/2024 12:05

This reply has been withdrawn

This message has been withdrawn at the poster's request

IdLikeToBeAFraser · 05/07/2024 12:06

Personally, I believe strongly that no government should remain in power long term, and definitely a limit to the term a prime minister can hold should be in place.

I also think the scrutiny will absolutely be huge on labour because
a) unlike with Blaire, labour hasn't won becuase the electorate love Labour but rather because they hate the Conservatives
b) The conservatives (and possibly started in the last few years of the last Labour government) have so completely destroyed the public's trust in politicians and the political process that it will be a long time before anyone sits back and assumes the government is doing the best they can. if anything, the standards for Labour are going to be insanely high and I predict that they will have a number of ridiculous scandals that would barely have even featured for the conservative government
c) People's lives are still really hard. Even if Labour do a really good job, things aren't going to get better overnight. It's going to take time. Which means people's engagement and expectations of politics will remain high foor the short to medium term.
d) Kier is not intrinsically loved. People dont feel passion for him so will be very quick to believe the worst of him.

KimberleyClark · 05/07/2024 12:08

This reply has been deleted

This message has been withdrawn at the poster's request

Sorry what do you mean by “Labour weren’t voted in for a second term?”

ImPunbelievable · 05/07/2024 12:10

This reply has been deleted

This message has been withdrawn at the poster's request

When are you referring to that they didn't get a second term?

Brexile · 05/07/2024 12:10

Austerity was a political choice, not an ecomonic necessity. Nor was it scrutinised much by a public that was happy to see somebody else bearing the brunt.

DustyLee123 · 05/07/2024 12:10

ImPunbelievable · 05/07/2024 12:10

When are you referring to that they didn't get a second term?

My mistake!

LuckysDadsHat · 05/07/2024 12:10

This reply has been deleted

This message has been withdrawn at the poster's request

Huh? They had 3 terms from 1997-2010.

Oldcroneandthreewitches · 05/07/2024 12:12

Typically history shows us that Labour only do one term a pop. They are only really good as opposition.

napody · 05/07/2024 12:13

They will, I'm sure. The press will probably apply more. If there'd been any pre election dirt we would have had it, too.

Welsh government are currently looking into making it illegal for politicians to lie. I'm no legal expert and don't know if it's feasible, but an interesting idea.

hellesbells · 05/07/2024 12:13

Oldcroneandthreewitches · 05/07/2024 12:12

Typically history shows us that Labour only do one term a pop. They are only really good as opposition.

They had 3 terms

FinalCeleryScheme · 05/07/2024 12:16

Brexile · 05/07/2024 12:10

Austerity was a political choice, not an ecomonic necessity. Nor was it scrutinised much by a public that was happy to see somebody else bearing the brunt.

Rubbish. Of course we had to cut spending. Imagine the state of the public finances if we’d carried on building an ever more massive debt and then covid had struck…

The ‘you can always spend as you wish’ people on here are live in a fantastical - and childish - wonderland.

US2gether · 05/07/2024 12:27

Oldcroneandthreewitches · 05/07/2024 12:12

Typically history shows us that Labour only do one term a pop. They are only really good as opposition.

1997? 3 terms from then. The first 2 and the NHS never had it so good. Ask any doctor around during that period. Investment in education then improved along checkable improvements to the country. 3rd term was Iraq and it went pearshapped

araiwa · 05/07/2024 12:31

They'll need to quite a few terms to match the Tories in terms of corruption, greed, incompetence and general arseholery

ImPunbelievable · 05/07/2024 12:34

Oldcroneandthreewitches · 05/07/2024 12:12

Typically history shows us that Labour only do one term a pop. They are only really good as opposition.

Other than the first Labour government, they have always survived a second election.

  • 29 - 3 elections in power (inc national gov)
  • 45 - 2 elections in power
  • 64 - 2 elections in power
  • 74- 4 elections in power
  • 97- 5 elections in power
FinalCeleryScheme · 05/07/2024 12:38

araiwa · 05/07/2024 12:31

They'll need to quite a few terms to match the Tories in terms of corruption, greed, incompetence and general arseholery

I think you underestimate Starmer’s determination and drive. I reckon this government will demonstrate Olympic standards of shitness, venality and nastiness within a year. Oh, and superhuman standards of lying, worse even than New Labour’s.

DoraMae · 05/07/2024 12:41

Of course, Labour will be scrutinised,everyone in public office should be under scrutiny. The country voted for KS and Labour not just for policies but for moral purpose and decent human beings.

KS will be ready for scrutiny. He has been very honest about what can be achieved and that this will take time. (of course - he is picking up very poor Tory left overs)

lovelysunshine22 · 05/07/2024 12:43

Axelfoleyreturns · 05/07/2024 12:02

As someone who lived through the Blair years it was not a nirvana.

There was a similar amount of cronyism in play, cabinet members who had an odd relationship with the truth (looking at Peter Mandelson here - who was reappointed despite being proven to be very untrustworthy ) and not to mention going to war based upon a document of fiction. Unchecked power, regardless of which party is in charge is never satisfactory.

And at the end of the last Labour reign there was no money left, no bankers held accountable for their stupidity because of Blair’s pandering to the city with ‘light-touch legislation’ (indeed we actually paid them and helped them save themselves) and having handed the keys to the economy to the Bank of England, no gold left because the chancellor had sold it all, and a legacy of funding facilitated by kicking the can down the road for hospitals schools in various guises including PFI. So when there are comments about austerity, the lack of access to benefits including child benefit being limited to 2 children, the closure of sure start centres and a lack of funding for councils we need to remind ourselves how this position of austerity arose - and it is not the sole fault of the Tories as much as we’d love to think. The Tories didn’t introduce tuition fees or open the borders to East Europe - a decision that cost a lot of existing UK skilled workers their jobs. Neither did they stop right to buy or build any significant amount of social housing. Blair left office and promptly became the richest ex-prime minister we’ve ever had and now heads ‘The Tony Blair Institute’ which employs more than 600 people. At least Gordon Brown had the decency to stick to his principles and seems to have lived those principles.

And before a whole load of people post GDP growth etc under the Blair years consider the impact that the world economy has had in that time. Personally I was the richest I ever was under Blair - he was cautious on taxation and I even received child benefit despite being a high earner. No one considered if this was fair under Labour - but was one of the first things to go under the Tory coalition. Maybe had Labour considered this years before it wouldn’t have been necessary to penalise the less well off or limit that benefit to 2 children. They could have introduced that change and lost no votes. No Labour administration at the time wanted to or even attempted to make ‘the rich pay’. There were many, many missed opportunities.

My point is this - scrutiny is now more important than ever as decisions are taken that affect all parts of society. Women’s rights being a key issue. Moving forward and regardless of your politics, be that person who speaks up and continues applying the same pressure for transparency and accountability as was demanded of the last administration. Labour has one chance to get this right before they lose momentum and before the county lurches to the right again.

Great post! I remember the Blair years as well, bunch of hypocrites every bit as bad as any conservative

FinalCeleryScheme · 05/07/2024 12:45

DoraMae · 05/07/2024 12:41

Of course, Labour will be scrutinised,everyone in public office should be under scrutiny. The country voted for KS and Labour not just for policies but for moral purpose and decent human beings.

KS will be ready for scrutiny. He has been very honest about what can be achieved and that this will take time. (of course - he is picking up very poor Tory left overs)

Edited

Funny that, when he was going to come under scrutiny about the large number of antisemites in his party and suffer a massive rebellion, he pressured the Speaker and broke the rules to run away from scrutiny.

Stripesandchecks543 · 05/07/2024 12:47

Scrutiny should be high whichever government is in power.

At least Keir Starler will be keen to establish an independent civil service and a properly resourced justice system which the last administration decimated.

Theunamedcat · 05/07/2024 12:49

Tories increased tuition fees they have now made it so children who fail exams and go onto pass are excluded from student finance this has led to a rise in home schooling because children with no access to mental health care and support who would fail in a school environment are being home schooled so they can improve mental health wise and gain qualifications for the future

People whose children are struggling due to mental health are also pulling them from school due to threats and fines

When the labour government were last in my town changed to two tier education temporary classrooms were set up while new buildings were commissioned then the Conservative government came in it all evaporated the land that was for a school has now been turned into empty houses the school is wedged onto a tiny piece of land still (they used to playground share with the middle school and lost that when they went two tier) the brand new children centre next to the school is used for everything but and they spent over ten years of time money and effort trying to overturn a covenant on a piece of land they wanted for housing they had to give up and built a smaller than needed school that was instantly oversubscribed they knocked down an enormous school for that

We had a government consultation the first thing they did was scrap it and order a new one when it came out the same way they chose to ignore it

Im currently living next to a building site new houses built on good farmland in a town with no jobs no real local homeless people no transport poor water supply oversubscribed schools poor road systems

Don't try and say that it wasn't the Conservative party fault they made piss poor choices they should own them

Kendodd · 05/07/2024 13:09

No please don't do that!
The Tories are allowed to get away with absolute murder by the press and voters. The Labour Party in opposition was always held to a much higher standard than the Tories ever have been. Hopefully this high level of scrutiny and accountability will continue in government.

MargaretThursday · 05/07/2024 13:25

napody · 05/07/2024 12:13

They will, I'm sure. The press will probably apply more. If there'd been any pre election dirt we would have had it, too.

Welsh government are currently looking into making it illegal for politicians to lie. I'm no legal expert and don't know if it's feasible, but an interesting idea.

It would be nice to think you could stop them lying, but I can't see it working.
You'd have to prove not only it wasn't true, but they knew it wasn't true.
And what happens if you've done that? Oops, naughty boy, don't do it again?

And there's ways round it. Person I know who is into politics, he will say something in such a way to give a particular impression, and then claim the innocent "I didn't say that" if called out.
He also runs his politics on the basis that if he can get the false impression out there, then do a teeny apology later then that's bonus to him because no one notices the latter.

MuddlingMackem · 05/07/2024 13:25

@Theunamedcat · Today 12:49
When the labour government were last in my town changed to two tier education temporary classrooms were set up while new buildings were commissioned then the Conservative government came in it all evaporated

Are you sure that it was the Tories who rescinded the funding, because I remember right near the end of the Labour government in 2010 they definitely rescinded funding for Further Education and I could have sworn that they also rescinded funding for new school buildings at the same time because one of the schools to lose out was my DCs' future secondary school.

HairyChin · 05/07/2024 13:27

Brave post op…

MN is notoriously veh veh veh left wing. There will very little criticism when Labour inevitably fuck up…

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