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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To remind everyone after the celebrations subside to apply the same level of scrutiny to a Labour Govt as was applied to the last Tory administration?

196 replies

Axelfoleyreturns · 05/07/2024 12:02

As someone who lived through the Blair years it was not a nirvana.

There was a similar amount of cronyism in play, cabinet members who had an odd relationship with the truth (looking at Peter Mandelson here - who was reappointed despite being proven to be very untrustworthy ) and not to mention going to war based upon a document of fiction. Unchecked power, regardless of which party is in charge is never satisfactory.

And at the end of the last Labour reign there was no money left, no bankers held accountable for their stupidity because of Blair’s pandering to the city with ‘light-touch legislation’ (indeed we actually paid them and helped them save themselves) and having handed the keys to the economy to the Bank of England, no gold left because the chancellor had sold it all, and a legacy of funding facilitated by kicking the can down the road for hospitals schools in various guises including PFI. So when there are comments about austerity, the lack of access to benefits including child benefit being limited to 2 children, the closure of sure start centres and a lack of funding for councils we need to remind ourselves how this position of austerity arose - and it is not the sole fault of the Tories as much as we’d love to think. The Tories didn’t introduce tuition fees or open the borders to East Europe - a decision that cost a lot of existing UK skilled workers their jobs. Neither did they stop right to buy or build any significant amount of social housing. Blair left office and promptly became the richest ex-prime minister we’ve ever had and now heads ‘The Tony Blair Institute’ which employs more than 600 people. At least Gordon Brown had the decency to stick to his principles and seems to have lived those principles.

And before a whole load of people post GDP growth etc under the Blair years consider the impact that the world economy has had in that time. Personally I was the richest I ever was under Blair - he was cautious on taxation and I even received child benefit despite being a high earner. No one considered if this was fair under Labour - but was one of the first things to go under the Tory coalition. Maybe had Labour considered this years before it wouldn’t have been necessary to penalise the less well off or limit that benefit to 2 children. They could have introduced that change and lost no votes. No Labour administration at the time wanted to or even attempted to make ‘the rich pay’. There were many, many missed opportunities.

My point is this - scrutiny is now more important than ever as decisions are taken that affect all parts of society. Women’s rights being a key issue. Moving forward and regardless of your politics, be that person who speaks up and continues applying the same pressure for transparency and accountability as was demanded of the last administration. Labour has one chance to get this right before they lose momentum and before the county lurches to the right again.

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KimberleyClark · 05/07/2024 21:22

Axelfoleyreturns · 05/07/2024 16:10

I agree but to some on here you’d think it was just brilliant all round. No government ever is, but it does seem that there has been a selective memory issue when applied to this one….!

Wilson saved lives. Both by refusing to send troops to Vietnam as per LBJ’s requests and by backing Barbara Castle’s breathalyser and seat belts initiatives.

FinalCeleryScheme · 05/07/2024 21:23

Covid payments to their cronies. Not defensible.

Every court challenge to the lawfulness of Covid contracts has failed. It’s the biggest Labour lie of them all. Even Tories have swallowed it!

daliesque · 05/07/2024 21:26

As someone who lived through the Blair years it was not a nirvana.

No, but it was a damn sight better than the last 14 years.

TheCompactPussycat · 05/07/2024 21:28

Many, many, years of following the political ins and outs of the UK tells me that the Labour Party are always more thoroughly scrutinised and held to account more strictly than the Conservatives. Always.

Axelfoleyreturns · 05/07/2024 21:32

KimberleyClark · 05/07/2024 21:22

Wilson saved lives. Both by refusing to send troops to Vietnam as per LBJ’s requests and by backing Barbara Castle’s breathalyser and seat belts initiatives.

Wilson’s conviction was Reversed by Blair sending troops to Iraq and Afghanistan.

I admired Barbara castle - women’s equal pay claims were possible due to her.

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Lopine · 05/07/2024 21:33

ll09sm · 05/07/2024 13:31

Labour are about to mess up the economy even more than it has been done by the Tories. But hey it’s ok, since they’ll be giving more handouts and freebies, it’s all good.

MN will be happy

Are you taking the piss? 😂

Liz Truss’s mini budget spaffed £30 BILLION up the wall

Axelfoleyreturns · 05/07/2024 21:34

TheCompactPussycat · 05/07/2024 21:28

Many, many, years of following the political ins and outs of the UK tells me that the Labour Party are always more thoroughly scrutinised and held to account more strictly than the Conservatives. Always.

See comments above regarding the dossier of evidence for the Iraq war. Even the left wing leaning press couldn’t manage accountability. And it cost lives.

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Lopine · 05/07/2024 21:36

daliesque · 05/07/2024 21:26

As someone who lived through the Blair years it was not a nirvana.

No, but it was a damn sight better than the last 14 years.

Agreed.

During the Blair years we had NHS dentists, the NHS was admired around the world for its efficiency, there was no shit in rivers, housing was still vaguely affordable relative to earnings…

Lopine · 05/07/2024 21:37

Lopine · 05/07/2024 21:33

Are you taking the piss? 😂

Liz Truss’s mini budget spaffed £30 BILLION up the wall

And how much have the tories wasted on HS2?

JanglingJack · 05/07/2024 21:42

YABU. What makes you think it's you that needs to remind people? Were you the only one that lived through those years? No.

I've got an app for reminders.

Axelfoleyreturns · 05/07/2024 21:44

Lopine · 05/07/2024 21:36

Agreed.

During the Blair years we had NHS dentists, the NHS was admired around the world for its efficiency, there was no shit in rivers, housing was still vaguely affordable relative to earnings…

The Blair administration is the cause of the fact there are no NHS dentists? Do you understand the changes they made to the NHS dentistry contracts?

The last Labour govt had 13 years to reverse the water privatisation and didn’t. They could also have introduced checks and balances to ensure the promises made about investment and water quality were kept. And didn’t.

Did you read about the exponential rise in private LL’s under Labour? Do you understand under whose watch BTL mortgages were introduced? Did Labour introduce rent control or any measure to help ease the cost of housing? No.

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JanglingJack · 05/07/2024 21:45

Axelfoleyreturns · 05/07/2024 21:34

See comments above regarding the dossier of evidence for the Iraq war. Even the left wing leaning press couldn’t manage accountability. And it cost lives.

It did.

It's a good job we've got you to remind the surviving loved ones.

They'd probably almost forgotten!

Riversideandrelax · 05/07/2024 21:47

Axelfoleyreturns · 05/07/2024 20:10

And therein lies the issue. Both of those policies were taken up by MC families and not by the families Labour hoped to target.

I'm sorry you are showing your ignorance.

Every DC got a CTF. You didn't have to 'take it up'. So WC families got them just the same as the MC. But they were aimed at everyone which is the point.

And again the same as Children's centres that was the point of them that MC families went there too that's what made them work. But again it's nonsense to say they didn't reach WC/target families. I used to work at one. The average person has no idea of the outreach work we did and additional services beyond regular groups. When these were cut it was devastating for those families.

Riversideandrelax · 05/07/2024 21:49

Axelfoleyreturns · 05/07/2024 20:17

One of their kids is a football agent, the other a multi multi millionaire having invested in the same educational policies his Dad developed, the thirds a barrister (unsurprising given both her parents were barristers} and the last a student at Oxford.

Certainly not my children then!

Lopine · 05/07/2024 21:51

Thank you for proving my point.

Full fact state that the cost of the Liz Truss disaster budget is difficult to estimate. Because the negative effect was enormous in a myriad of ways.

Families having to pay higher mortgage costs as a consequence of that budget could otherwise have spent their money on goods and services that boost GDP and keep people employed.

Think of industries who are looking to invest in facilities and tech that will create more jobs. Suddenly their borrowing costs shot up immediately following that budget and expansion plans were downgraded.

These are just two of many adverse effects on our economy caused by the tories. The public rightly, punished Liz Truss and her ilk by voting them out.

FinalCeleryScheme · 05/07/2024 21:53

Lopine · 05/07/2024 21:51

Thank you for proving my point.

Full fact state that the cost of the Liz Truss disaster budget is difficult to estimate. Because the negative effect was enormous in a myriad of ways.

Families having to pay higher mortgage costs as a consequence of that budget could otherwise have spent their money on goods and services that boost GDP and keep people employed.

Think of industries who are looking to invest in facilities and tech that will create more jobs. Suddenly their borrowing costs shot up immediately following that budget and expansion plans were downgraded.

These are just two of many adverse effects on our economy caused by the tories. The public rightly, punished Liz Truss and her ilk by voting them out.

It disproves your point. And the other analysis is more detailed. And also disproves your point.

Lopine · 05/07/2024 21:55

Axelfoleyreturns · 05/07/2024 21:44

The Blair administration is the cause of the fact there are no NHS dentists? Do you understand the changes they made to the NHS dentistry contracts?

The last Labour govt had 13 years to reverse the water privatisation and didn’t. They could also have introduced checks and balances to ensure the promises made about investment and water quality were kept. And didn’t.

Did you read about the exponential rise in private LL’s under Labour? Do you understand under whose watch BTL mortgages were introduced? Did Labour introduce rent control or any measure to help ease the cost of housing? No.

Oh stop being a sore loser and trying to pin the blame on Labour for everything. 🤣

The shit hit the fan (rivers, beaches) on all of these things over the 14 years the tories were in power.

Lopine · 05/07/2024 21:55

FinalCeleryScheme · 05/07/2024 21:53

It disproves your point. And the other analysis is more detailed. And also disproves your point.

No it doesn’t.

Loser 😂😂😂

anythinginapinch · 05/07/2024 22:00

As if.
Tories = tucked up with media.
Labour = easy prey

TheCompactPussycat · 05/07/2024 22:06

Axelfoleyreturns · 05/07/2024 21:44

The Blair administration is the cause of the fact there are no NHS dentists? Do you understand the changes they made to the NHS dentistry contracts?

The last Labour govt had 13 years to reverse the water privatisation and didn’t. They could also have introduced checks and balances to ensure the promises made about investment and water quality were kept. And didn’t.

Did you read about the exponential rise in private LL’s under Labour? Do you understand under whose watch BTL mortgages were introduced? Did Labour introduce rent control or any measure to help ease the cost of housing? No.

If one were minded to countenance the slightest bit of criticism of the Tories, one might wonder why they didn't undo the changes to the dentistry contracts themselves. After all, they've had 3.5 times as long in power to think about it (introduced in 2006, so Labour remained in power for 4 years afterwards compared to the Tories 14 years).

Axelfoleyreturns · 05/07/2024 22:06

JanglingJack · 05/07/2024 21:45

It did.

It's a good job we've got you to remind the surviving loved ones.

They'd probably almost forgotten!

Debate on the issues/points being discussed on this thread is fair game, but that comment is really offensive.

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Shakeoffyourchains · 05/07/2024 22:07

Axelfoleyreturns · 05/07/2024 16:06

do you really think that? Because I cannot think what James O’Brien is going to fill his 3 hours with every day unless he intends to write even more smug books about being right. He isn’t brave enough to get involved in the ‘what is the definition of a woman’ debate either - despite having two daughters of his own. Ditto Newsnight.

I think we must have very different definitions of accountability and transparency tbh or perhaps we've lived in parallel worlds.

Where I'm from the tory goverment has just lurched from one scandal to another for the last 4 or 5 years. In fact, it became so common for them to be embroiled in a scandal that it became a surprise when a week passed without one emerging.

But tell you what, I'll apply the same standard of scrutiny I held the tory government to if you promise to apply the same standard of turning a blind eye to this labour one?

FinalCeleryScheme · 05/07/2024 22:09

Lopine · 05/07/2024 21:55

No it doesn’t.

Loser 😂😂😂

🙄

Axelfoleyreturns · 05/07/2024 22:11

TheCompactPussycat · 05/07/2024 22:06

If one were minded to countenance the slightest bit of criticism of the Tories, one might wonder why they didn't undo the changes to the dentistry contracts themselves. After all, they've had 3.5 times as long in power to think about it (introduced in 2006, so Labour remained in power for 4 years afterwards compared to the Tories 14 years).

I guess because the dentists weren’t minded to lobby for it? It is quite different to GP contract situation where the market for private services was not so bouyant. The dentistry contract change also coincided with the rise in demand for cosmetic dentistry creating a perfect storm. Newly qualified dentists just don’t have the means to set up an NHS practice but certainly would be an idea for the new govt to look at - the provision of low-cost funding to set up an NHS practice would be one.

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