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To remind everyone after the celebrations subside to apply the same level of scrutiny to a Labour Govt as was applied to the last Tory administration?

196 replies

Axelfoleyreturns · 05/07/2024 12:02

As someone who lived through the Blair years it was not a nirvana.

There was a similar amount of cronyism in play, cabinet members who had an odd relationship with the truth (looking at Peter Mandelson here - who was reappointed despite being proven to be very untrustworthy ) and not to mention going to war based upon a document of fiction. Unchecked power, regardless of which party is in charge is never satisfactory.

And at the end of the last Labour reign there was no money left, no bankers held accountable for their stupidity because of Blair’s pandering to the city with ‘light-touch legislation’ (indeed we actually paid them and helped them save themselves) and having handed the keys to the economy to the Bank of England, no gold left because the chancellor had sold it all, and a legacy of funding facilitated by kicking the can down the road for hospitals schools in various guises including PFI. So when there are comments about austerity, the lack of access to benefits including child benefit being limited to 2 children, the closure of sure start centres and a lack of funding for councils we need to remind ourselves how this position of austerity arose - and it is not the sole fault of the Tories as much as we’d love to think. The Tories didn’t introduce tuition fees or open the borders to East Europe - a decision that cost a lot of existing UK skilled workers their jobs. Neither did they stop right to buy or build any significant amount of social housing. Blair left office and promptly became the richest ex-prime minister we’ve ever had and now heads ‘The Tony Blair Institute’ which employs more than 600 people. At least Gordon Brown had the decency to stick to his principles and seems to have lived those principles.

And before a whole load of people post GDP growth etc under the Blair years consider the impact that the world economy has had in that time. Personally I was the richest I ever was under Blair - he was cautious on taxation and I even received child benefit despite being a high earner. No one considered if this was fair under Labour - but was one of the first things to go under the Tory coalition. Maybe had Labour considered this years before it wouldn’t have been necessary to penalise the less well off or limit that benefit to 2 children. They could have introduced that change and lost no votes. No Labour administration at the time wanted to or even attempted to make ‘the rich pay’. There were many, many missed opportunities.

My point is this - scrutiny is now more important than ever as decisions are taken that affect all parts of society. Women’s rights being a key issue. Moving forward and regardless of your politics, be that person who speaks up and continues applying the same pressure for transparency and accountability as was demanded of the last administration. Labour has one chance to get this right before they lose momentum and before the county lurches to the right again.

OP posts:
Axelfoleyreturns · 05/07/2024 17:02

Squareplate · 05/07/2024 16:58

I'm sure we will, but do behave, even for Tories this lot have excelled themselves in all areas of lying, cheating, cronyism and the coffers are well and truly empty now.

PFI schools are the only ones in a decent state of repair after 14 years of the Tories (I don't have experience of hospitals). The government has made money out of the Brown banking rescue and if the self regulation was such a terrible thing, why haven't the Tories taken it back in 14 years?

They may well be in a decent state of repair but the majority start every academic year knowing they are over budget because of the crippling debt they saddled with before they even start to improve the lives of pupils. It really isn’t the answer and we should all be looking at future deals like this more closely. If we don’t learn from the mistakes we don’t stand to improve anything or future proofing anything moving forward.

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TimeFlysWhenYoureHavingRum · 05/07/2024 17:04

Lol. The British press is fervently anti labour. They will not be short of thorough scrutiny (plus the tabloid mudlinging, smear camagns and outright lies that will be heaped upon them).
The Tories got away with murder for 14 years.

Applepencilplant · 05/07/2024 17:05

FFS

Applepencilplant · 05/07/2024 17:05

Pomposity personified. Thanks for the tip.

Leniriefenstahl · 05/07/2024 17:08

@RedToothBrush agreed but that’s about individual voters, I’m thinking of the media that has a massive influence on public opinion.

YouJustDoYou · 05/07/2024 17:08

Politicians are all the same. All of them. Labour WILL fuck up. It might take a couple years but their mates will be the ones getting contracts, there'll be one spending thousands on a duck pond (again) etc.

FrivolousKitchenRollUse · 05/07/2024 17:19

I will OP. I doubt I'll have to though given the sheer dishonesty of what has just left.

If you said 20 years ago that we'd have a government to behave like the last lot just did no one would have believed you. Policies aside, they were next level in terms of lying and dishonesty.

Axelfoleyreturns · 05/07/2024 17:25

TimeFlysWhenYoureHavingRum · 05/07/2024 17:04

Lol. The British press is fervently anti labour. They will not be short of thorough scrutiny (plus the tabloid mudlinging, smear camagns and outright lies that will be heaped upon them).
The Tories got away with murder for 14 years.

Yet when the Today programme (never knowingly right wing) reported on the WMD issue and the issue of the sexed up dossier at the time it happened, they were pursued mercilessly by the Labour Party spin machine until heads rolled. And they were examining important evidence. And we went to war after that evidence was presented as fact to a parliament with a massive Labour majority.

I think it depends on your definition of ‘getting away with Murder’ really.

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Brexile · 05/07/2024 17:56

FinalCeleryScheme · 05/07/2024 12:16

Rubbish. Of course we had to cut spending. Imagine the state of the public finances if we’d carried on building an ever more massive debt and then covid had struck…

The ‘you can always spend as you wish’ people on here are live in a fantastical - and childish - wonderland.

Not at all. Taxing utility companies (for example) and unearned individual wealth would have reduced the need for cuts. And on the spending side, I'd rather the government had been less generous in its dealings with private sector providers (PPE anyone?) than cut benefits for families with children.

There are always choices, and the particular choices made speak volumes about our priorities as a society.

Riversideandrelax · 05/07/2024 19:10

Having lived through the Blair years - it was absolute paradise compared to how it's been under the Tory's. And I'm gutted that my DC have had to grow up under a black cloud. But now, well...things can only get better!

User2460177 · 05/07/2024 19:16

lovelysunshine22 · 05/07/2024 12:43

Great post! I remember the Blair years as well, bunch of hypocrites every bit as bad as any conservative

Absolutely op. Blair was the era of spin (which was basically lies). Both parties have their issues- people need to stop being childish.

bergamotorange · 05/07/2024 19:16

Axelfoleyreturns · 05/07/2024 17:25

Yet when the Today programme (never knowingly right wing) reported on the WMD issue and the issue of the sexed up dossier at the time it happened, they were pursued mercilessly by the Labour Party spin machine until heads rolled. And they were examining important evidence. And we went to war after that evidence was presented as fact to a parliament with a massive Labour majority.

I think it depends on your definition of ‘getting away with Murder’ really.

This was important, but also quite a long time ago.

I think what would be healthy and productive would be to focus on the here and now, because there is quite enough shit to deal with in the present, without going back over the activities of the last-but-seven (have I got that right?) Prime Minister.

User2460177 · 05/07/2024 19:20

Brexile · 05/07/2024 17:56

Not at all. Taxing utility companies (for example) and unearned individual wealth would have reduced the need for cuts. And on the spending side, I'd rather the government had been less generous in its dealings with private sector providers (PPE anyone?) than cut benefits for families with children.

There are always choices, and the particular choices made speak volumes about our priorities as a society.

Utility companies are taxed (quite heavily) and so is unearned income and capital gains. Not sure what you’re suggesting

User2460177 · 05/07/2024 19:25

FrivolousKitchenRollUse · 05/07/2024 17:19

I will OP. I doubt I'll have to though given the sheer dishonesty of what has just left.

If you said 20 years ago that we'd have a government to behave like the last lot just did no one would have believed you. Policies aside, they were next level in terms of lying and dishonesty.

Weapons of mass destruction coming for us in 45 minutes? Cmon.

FinalCeleryScheme · 05/07/2024 19:26

Leniriefenstahl · 05/07/2024 15:38

We’re in massive amounts of debt already so obviously austerity didn’t work. We were in massive debt before Covid and before 2016.
It’s like the country barely functions properly, third world services, but we’re still paying huge amounts of tax. We were always being told by the government that there’s no magic money tree, the country can’t afford this or that, mind boggling when we’re the 6th richest nation apparently. So much money floating around but so little to show.

Edited

Sorry, that really doesn’t make any sense. In fact you’re making my point for me.

We’re in debt because of Covid spending and Covid damage to the economy, and because we’ve overspent on public sector services. Imagine where we’d be without the previous belt tightening. Starmer is inheriting essentially the economy and spending levels he would have been faced with if Labour had won in 2019.

Axelfoleyreturns · 05/07/2024 19:41

bergamotorange · 05/07/2024 19:16

This was important, but also quite a long time ago.

I think what would be healthy and productive would be to focus on the here and now, because there is quite enough shit to deal with in the present, without going back over the activities of the last-but-seven (have I got that right?) Prime Minister.

It was a long time ago. But we are also discussing the last Labour govt and press scrutiny. The assertion was that Labour would be held to a higher standard and I was merely pointing out that when they were in power the press did their best but were also thwarted. Let’s see what happens…..

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fliptopbin · 05/07/2024 19:42

Well it seems like after less than 1 day in office they have been judged as failing already, according to this thread.

Coffeerum · 05/07/2024 19:43

Well apparently the bar for the sort of shit you can get away with in on the floor so…

HairyChin · 05/07/2024 19:49

Riversideandrelax · 05/07/2024 19:10

Having lived through the Blair years - it was absolute paradise compared to how it's been under the Tory's. And I'm gutted that my DC have had to grow up under a black cloud. But now, well...things can only get better!

Is that you Cherie?

Riversideandrelax · 05/07/2024 19:58

HairyChin · 05/07/2024 19:49

Is that you Cherie?

No! 😊 And surely their DC are older? I was just lucky enough to experience Labour policies like Children's centres and Child trust funds with my first child. It was disgusting what the Tories did.

Axelfoleyreturns · 05/07/2024 20:10

Riversideandrelax · 05/07/2024 19:58

No! 😊 And surely their DC are older? I was just lucky enough to experience Labour policies like Children's centres and Child trust funds with my first child. It was disgusting what the Tories did.

And therein lies the issue. Both of those policies were taken up by MC families and not by the families Labour hoped to target.

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RedToothBrush · 05/07/2024 20:13

Leniriefenstahl · 05/07/2024 17:08

@RedToothBrush agreed but that’s about individual voters, I’m thinking of the media that has a massive influence on public opinion.

The idea that the media is only setting an agenda rather than partly reflecting popular opinion is nonsense.

Its a symboic relationship. Newspapers exist to make money. They can only do so if they echo how people feel to some exist.

Axelfoleyreturns · 05/07/2024 20:17

Riversideandrelax · 05/07/2024 19:58

No! 😊 And surely their DC are older? I was just lucky enough to experience Labour policies like Children's centres and Child trust funds with my first child. It was disgusting what the Tories did.

One of their kids is a football agent, the other a multi multi millionaire having invested in the same educational policies his Dad developed, the thirds a barrister (unsurprising given both her parents were barristers} and the last a student at Oxford.

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greenwoodentablelegs · 05/07/2024 20:41

Riversideandrelax · 05/07/2024 19:10

Having lived through the Blair years - it was absolute paradise compared to how it's been under the Tory's. And I'm gutted that my DC have had to grow up under a black cloud. But now, well...things can only get better!

Agreed.
I lived under Blair and do not recognise any of the negative posts. Ok the war but the tories wiuld have also done the same.

after 14 years of Tory Etonian rule -

the seas and rivers are full of shit.
nhs is broken
dentistry broken.
education broken for SEN kids and any failing kids.
Housing - broken. Sky high mortgages and rentals.
freedom of movement - broken. Brexit thanks to Tory incompetence and Corbyn.
cost of living - ouch
Covid payments to their cronies.
One new run way
farming - can’t find workers
North left to rot.
shareholders - doing well! I work in the city, we have a lot of money thanks.

anything I forgot ?

Tory rule has fucked the UK up the arse. Kier has plans to reverse the rot, but we did it to ourselves

potholes ! No road maintenance- forgot that

Axelfoleyreturns · 05/07/2024 21:19

Hmmm…

the seas and rivers are full of shit. - privatised in 1989, Under labour control 1997-2010
nhs is broken - but even Gerry Robinson in a 2007 documentary declared the NHS broken and that was 10 years into the Blair administration.

dentistry broken - on Blair’s watch. Look at the NHs dentistry contract they introduced which meant a mass exodus of NHS dentists.

Housing - broken. Sky high mortgages and rentals - but the amount of private LL’s escalated significantly under Labour who didn’t replace social housing sold under the thatcher administration- but don’t take my word for it, read this…
thelabourcampaignforcouncilhousing.org/2022/01/22/new-labours-culpability-for-the-housing-crisis/

freedom of movement - broken. Brexit thanks to Tory incompetence and Corbyn. Yes, and thanks to Blair allowing unchecked immigration from Eastern Europe in ‘04.

cost of living - ouch - yep but also driven by the rising energy costs which Thatcher warned against many years ago if we were to allow Russia to supply our gas.

Covid payments to their cronies. Not defensible.

One new run way - not sure of your point? Even the tories voted against Heathrow and ‘old Etonian’ Zac Goldsmith resigned over it.

farming - can’t find workers - see Brexit. Thanks Jeremy Corbyn.

shareholders - doing well! I work in the city, we have a lot of money thanks. Well that is driven by the free market not any political party.

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