To wonder if DP is all he seems?

[sunniedee]

Hi mumsnetters

I’ve changed my username because I’ve posted here quite a lot and have a few school mum friends on here who might recognise me. I’m very conflicted about my current DP and in need of some impartial, honest, unfiltered MN advice because it’s quite difficult / confusing to discuss this with family and friends.

I’ve been with my DP for around 9 months now but I've known of him distantly for around a year longer because of the social circles we’re in. I came out of a relationship about 11 months ago so I hadn’t really got to know DP a lot during that but we started seeing each other soon after my separation with my ex. I know this seems quite quick but during the time we’ve been together he's been absolutely lovely, he’s treated me with so much kindness and respect and we have such an amazing connection that I’ve really never felt before - I genuinely feel like we could go the distance. He has two DC’s and I have one DC. At times I can absolutely envision us having a DC together, maybe even getting married. I feel so lucky to have met him, he is soft and gentle, which is so refreshing as my previous relationship of 10 years was toxic and unpleasant.

BUT…. There’s more context to the story which plants seeds of doubt in my mind, but I feel dreadful that I'm even saying that because he really is so lovely to me.

I’ll jump into it.. his two DC’s are by two BM’s. He's currently having problems with his youngest DC’s BM. She brought social services into the picture which from what he told me seems to be an extreme measure. Without disclosing too much information (that I know), SS assessed and said no further action needed but they’ve brought in another service to offer support, which includes parenting work for him to do. From my experience of him I’m really surprised, he seems to be such a good dad, he loves his DC's and he's really been affected by this. His contact with his youngest DC has been limited during this time which he’s really struggled with. He tried to get the situation back to normal as quick as possible so we can still have time together too, any parent is entitled to their own adult time. But his ex has been offering him alternative days to have his DC (she says to fit around the reason SS were involved) and some of them work well but sometimes they would fall on occasions that we had planned to go away or spend time together so he’s ended up missing out on seeing his DC because of this. BM says that some of these days are so she can work but I don’t see why she can’t just work other days instead.

The thing is I'm aware that SS were also involved when he broke up with the BM of his eldest DC and he had to go to court for contact. From what I can gather the oldest's BM was a bit unhinged and DP ended up getting full custody. That DC now goes to her mums about 40/60. I’ve never met either BM but I’ve a couple of mutual(ish) friends with the youngest's BM who have told me she's nice, but I know break-ups can bring out the worst in people no matter how “nice" they are. He's never spoken badly about either of his ex BM’s, which I really love about him, but from what he does say it seems to be quite easy for me to read between the lines and paint the picture myself.

I’ve been feeling so awful for him to have this happen to him twice, he really doesn't deserve it. I also feel absolutely terrible for having the slightest niggle of doubt in my mind but a couple of things some friends have said keep playing over for me and I don’t know whether to listen to them or ignore them.

AIBU to think I should try to put it to the back of my mind and focus on the positive, I know people can be different in different relationships so maybe they just weren’t right for each other?

YABU - to have doubts and wonder if there's more with DP than meets the eye.

YANBU - to think DP is lovely with me so I should keep my focus on our own relationship and not pay too much mind to the rest.

EDITED: I’ve realised my post title might contradict my YABU / YANBU options, hopefully it’s not confusing but answers based on the options above would be great.

TIA!

SS are a disgrace and can easily be used as a weapon against a parent by another parent. I’ve witnessed both sides. Dealing with an unhinged parent with full backing by SS is a very scary situation to be in. It is way more common than people think. One ex using SS as a weapon and then the next partner knowing this information and using it against the ex when they split is also common. He could have been advised on getting support to stop this going any further and to cover his own back. It does not mean he’s a bad dad.

Sounds like it could be him who’s unhinged…

Why on earth would you be talking about children with him at this early stage with all that going on, two he clearly isn’t even capable of keeping safe by the sound of it.

It is incredible that you are envisioning having a child with this man, who cannot be a present and committed father to his existing children. Why on earth would you do this?

he and his situation present so many flags and the whole thing is such a mess. As a mother, I’d be worried not only for the chaos and instability he would be bring to the romantic relationship, but also your own child.

Why.

OP I haven’t read the full thread as you’re obviously getting a lot of good advice you’d do well to heed. But i hve read all your posts.

I did just want to say that there is a difference between “seeming like a good dad” and being a good dad. Him being upset about not seeing his child - but blaming his ex and SS and refusing to give up plans with you, for instance. That is behaviour which makes it seem as though he is the victim and he is prioritising you ie. making you feel special and making you feel sorry for him. That is not being a good dad - as many others have said. It’s a pose to get sympathy and make the situation about him, instead of focusing on what he needs to do to have a relationship with his child. This is a hallmark of a manipulator and how coercive control begins.

To provide some context I knew my “D”P for two years before we got involved and a further two years before we moved in together. I thought we were in a forever relationship of trust and mutual respect. I could not have been more wrong.

Everything you’ve said, and the way you’re joining dots, filling in blanks, blaming other people for not providing enough information and making excuses for him, is every 🚩going. Read the Lundy Bancroft book Why Does He Do That?

Please don’t be fooled into thinking you can go further with this and walk away unscathed - you are in a fight for your mental and emotional well being and you can only win it by getting the help out of dodge. Don’t make your child watch you go through this (again). And don’t get pregnant.

I gave up reading after you state he has missed out on seeing his DC as you and him have plans!! Any man that chooses a partner over seeing their child on his designated days does not deserve the title of dad!!

Either he is very unlucky or (more likely) he is an absolutely masterful manipulator.
He’s known your history - fresh from a bad relationship - making you a perfect target.
He’s known how to present himself as the complete opposite - lulling you into a sense of security.

He’s smart enough not to say anything directly derogatory or critical about the exes, veiled insinuations only, leaving you to join the dots.

He’s been vague about what happened in both previous relationships, weird considering SS are involved - you would expect him to be forthcoming and factual in this situation to help make clear he was not reason SS became involved.

Mutual friends appear to know something negative and are not saying what - but they are conspicuously NOT saying “poor guy dealing with two crazy exes who’ve brought SS into kids’ lives” .
You haven’t said how soon after his last relationship ended he moved onto you - I bet if you checked out timelines both previous relationships followed the same pattern - similar gap between 1 & 2 then 2 & you. If he’s just been randomly unlucky the relationships would differ in duration and nature, not be few months gap, 4-5 years then onto the next one.
The choosing to carry on with date instead of taking child is very odd - is this a way of him maintaining some level of control over ex?

All in all you do seem to have major cause for concern. You don’t know anything except what he’s told you. A police check is a good idea but will probably show nothing - SS are not keeping him away from his children. But a skilled manipulator wouldn’t be so clumsy as to have the police involved.
You haven’t given yourself much time on your own either before becoming involved with him.
If you are to maintain this relationship you need to find out more - perhaps directly asking friends in confidence what they’ve heard - or even asking him some more direct questions. His reaction would be a good indicator regardless of what he said.

You could pull back a bit and cool things - if he’s decent he’ll be ok with this, if he likes being the sole director of relationships you may see another side to him. Just be very wary - don’t gloss over stuff because you want him to be what you’ve been wishing for.

Yes on the surface there's a million red flags but I don't think they should all be deemed as absolute deal breakers.

Though I do know from experience social services don't get in touch just because one parent is stopping access. It's a civil issue and is handled in court.

Secondly, did he prioritise seeing OP over child OR did ex use contact time as a way of controlling dad? I've often been put in positions where I've planned stuff and then my ex has told me to be available just to control me, in the beginning I'd have jumped through hoops to ensure I saw them, but after 4 years of being alienated and a court hearing I too would be likely to say no.

BM (birth mum) is the most insulting way of referring to Mum. I absolutely hate. It's derogatory.

I feel yes there are red flags but I also feel you need to speak to this man OP and ask for the truth, just say you're unsure etc. If he doesn't give you the answers you need, then you can't carry on.

*just because social services have being involved doesn't make him all bad you don't know the facts.
** my ex would describe me as unhinged too, doesn't mean it's true......

I am a mum who's spent the last 4 years fighting to see my children after a very horrid divorce, and i really don't think om reflection now, that anything is that black and white.

In my professional opinion, it would be prudent for you to take a break from the relationship and enroll in the freedom course. Additionally, I recommend that you research and understand the implications of a Claire's/Sarah's Law on your partner.

It is essential to gather all relevant information and ensure your well-being before making any significant decisions, particularly regarding your relationship. While not all biological mothers are unstable, a substantial number can be.

Each case should be evaluated individually, and it is crucial to possess all the facts before proceeding. It is evident that you care deeply for this individual and want to believe the best about him.

However, until you have conducted thorough research and due diligence, it is advisable to refrain from making any major decisions, such as marriage or having children. Trust your intuition and logical reasoning rather than solely relying on emotions.

Communicate your need for more detailed information about his past relationships and the reasons behind any challenging situations. If you decide to continue the relationship, strive to understand all perspectives involved.

While it is important to allow your partner downtime, it is equally essential to consider the well-being of the biological mothers involved. Determine if there have been any accusations in family court that he has disclosed. If so, it is crucial to discuss these matters openly and honestly.

On balance I would trust a professionally trained SS- yes they may be being over cautious and having a more one sided view but they do have in mind the best interests of the children.

It doesn't matter whether you get to the bottom of whether you were manipulated or not.

It's fine to just decide you think it's best he just puts his focus 100% on parenting and that you'd like to step back from the relationship as its all a bit much for you. Yes maybe that's not confronting the issues but they aren't yours to confront OP.

I really wouldn't want to get dragged in to any of this myself OP. It sounds like a recipe for misery. You will work your feelings through in time. It's absolutely fine to step away and you did nothing, nothing, wrong.

I agree 100%

No it's the pathetic term 'baby mum' instead of ex partner.

I always thought ' birth mother ' was only used in adoption and/or fostering situations.

as then there is another mother involved either a foster mother or the adoptive mother.

I don't think that's what OP meant. I think she meant "Baby Mum" or the even worse "Baby Mama"

I’d avoid like the plague!

Your two options say it all. Neither make you unreasonable because they're worded so that it comes out as you not being wrong to focus on him.

I've said YABU therefore not to vote for what you say that means but because YABU to trust his version.

He has 2 BMs. You would be his third. Social services have been involved with both. He's had limited contact. How are those things alone not making you run yet you can envisage another child with him AND you're having your children around him presumably without having properly vetted him it seems.

The key to me is this: "sometimes they would fall on occasions that we had planned to go away or spend time together so he’s ended up missing out on seeing his DC because of this". So basically he has prioritised seeing you over his kids... and this is someone you think is a good dad with his kids best interests at heart? Yeah, nah. How that is attractive to you I don't know.

You have to be careful because if you align yourself with someone who is a poor decision maker in relation to children when you have children yourself, eyes could be on you for failing to prioritise your children's best interests over a man. No relationship is worth more than your kids.

This is going to be hard work with these complication. Even if there is nothing really BAD. You and your DC will never have an easy life. He or his DC will always need something as a priority.
Sorry but avoid.

Give it a year and you’ll be the next “unhinged ex”. Walk away with your child and your dignity. Or even better; run.

I would proceed with caution. SS involvement after both break ups would be a red flag for me. Also without sounding horrendous myself, you have suffered for 10 years of course he seems lovely. It’s not uncommon for a potentially abusive relationship to still be happy after 9 months. I would definitely consider using Claire/Sarahs law.

I’m probably a bit late to the party but if you aren’t ready to ditch this man completely then there is no harm in taking thing very very slowly, gathering as much info as you can from what you observe and asking other people who know him (I don’t think that’s awkward- it’s good sense). And definitely keeping him apart from your own children for a long time. My sister always has a bad habit of jumping in with both feet to new relationships with unsuitable men and then it’s a messy nightmare getting back out of them again. There’s always this urgency that it has to all happen straight away but a mature approach would be realising that the crazy in love stage of new relationships eventually quietens down a bit and if you are still super keen to share a life with someone, then this is the moment to start moving things up a notch. Not in the first year at the very very least, but with children involved I’d be thinking 2 years tbh.

That’s my thoughts love bombing , I would be treading very carefully with this guy !
Two mothers and two lots of SS involvement the common factor being him and that he has to have support with parenting there most be evidence for SS to put this in place.
The biggest red flag that he chooses to not see his children and go out with his new girlfriend when he has SS involvement 🚩🚩🚩
The part about sometimes he misses out on time with his children because of the change of dates …. Nope he should be moving plans to see his kids .
i don’t think you have had enough time to get a true picture and tbh i think i would take the advice of asking about Claire’s law because something isn’t adding up .
You have left a toxic relationship OP which makes you vulnerable please don’t put yourself through another one.
This guy might be genuine but the evidence suggests otherwise trust your gut . Best of luck

@sunniedee (FSW here) SS involvement doesn’t always mean something really negative however, it sometimes does indicate bigger issues. This alone should prompt questions. Add in what friends may have said & then the fact he has chosen time with you over the DC this is all more than enough to need firm evidence here of any previous issues. I’m assuming he has been upfront with SS that he’s in a relationship with you? As they would usually want to include a partner who spends time with the DC in question in any assessment. If they have not involved you, I would be asking why he has kept the relationship quiet and potentially evoke Claire’s Law just to be sure. He wouldn’t know you’ve done this and this would clear up any concerns.

Run for the hills. Too many issues that you don't need in your life. Look after yourself..

Usually means “baby mama” - a shorter way of saying mother of his child, rather than mother of the child. A subtle difference