MIL and washing my child...

[sibk]

I have posted here before about this, but my post was removed and I don't know why.

I'll try and say it again, slightly differently.

My MIL seems obsessed with my DD's hygiene. Since she was a baby. Telling me not to use wet wipes and use water for example. It sort of stared with that.

She'd often say it's better just to wash them at nappy changes, rather than use wipes. Apparently she used to always wash her children at nappy changes.

Since my DD is toilet trained, it's like every time she goes to the toilet with her ( she sort of invites herself in ). She always goes on about how she needs to be washed.

MIL doesn't look after DD a lot but whenever she does go to her house, DD tells me that she washes her. It's like she's always making a massive deal out of her hygiene.

MIL would also often tell me that DD went to the toilet and was only cleaned with toilet paper and I should wash her. Etc.

I told her I find it a bit annoying to be constantly reminded of having to wash my child. She also claims DD says it ' hurts '. Even when I'm right in ear shot, DD will be on the toilet and MIL will be hovering over her and saying ' it hurts doesn't it ', then DD will say ' no ' and MIL reports back saying DD is sore.

I can't help but think she thinks there's a problem ( since birth ) in how I wash my child or something and I find it annoying and intrusive.

For the record, I bathe DD regularly and I also wash her in between, just to make sure she's fresh and clean. So I don't really see what her issue is. But like I said, it's been like this since birth.

I find it instructive and just annoying. DD went over last week and said she was washed there when I suggested to wash before bed, she said ' but grandma already washed me '. It pisses me off. Am I being ridiculous ?

I would never allow my child to be alone with this woman. Ever.

Yes we do wash with water Men and Women after all toilet visits. And we wash our children. It is not big deal. Thats not the issue here. The issue is her obsessive comments and being intrusive. She may have OCD.
My MIL and Mother wash all their grandchild when under their care No big deal, including my DS. It isn't abuse. But if any family member started to make comments or become obsessed about it I would be concerned and orevebt it happening until I found out whats going on.
I don't think her MIL is abusing the child she may just be OCD.

Agree except you can't ask a 4 year old to stand up to an adult in this situation. She's not going to say no to her own grandmother.

You as her mother need to stand up to the mil and stop this.

It's none of your mil's business.

I would be really uncomfortable with anyone insisting anything like this around my child.

Your mil sounds obsessed over this issue and perhaps your dd, who is already uncomfortable herself with it, will develop the same obsession.

I'd make it clear it doesn't concern mil and she's to stop going on about it.

Creepy at the least.

OP Any adult obsessing over a child's genital region is fucked up. I would not be allowing her contact.

I wonder if your MIL has OCD or similar?
This would explain this almost obsessive behaviour..maybe have a chat to her and see if you can find any childhood history of her own

Your DD is old enough to take of themselves on the toilet. She doesn't need an adult to take her. For your MIL to persist is inappropriate.

All this washing WILL make your DD sore as the body cleans itself in that area and soap etc will irritate. Obviously a bidet is fine.

My mother was a little like this when she was at this beginning stages of dementia.

Haven’t read the full thread but if you don’t put a stop to this your DD is likely to grow up with issues surrounding cleanliness and having to scrub herself.

Time to start advocating for privacy at toilet time. A "no thank you grandma" type thing!

Also, if she's like this now I dread to think what she'll do when puberty hits.

Does sound a bit OCDish.

I absolutely agree with you that these are important lessons for all kids.
In this case though... I really don't think it's fair to put the work of maintaining this boundary onto the 4 year old. OP tried to set this boundary and got tears and guilt-trips, and the behaviours did not stop. I really doubt grandma is going to listen to the 4yo. Instead, she'll probably come back with some highly damaging manipulative bullshit, and then do what she wants anyway.
OP I am sorry because I know too well how difficult this is. But it really is a situation where you need to go into mama-bear mode and maintain the boundaries yourself, rather than asking your child to handle it.
Remember boundaries are about what YOU do.
"MIL please stop doing this thing' isn't a boundary, it's a request. "MIL stop or I will cut contact" is a threat.
"I am not sending DD to your house because I do not allow people around my children who disregard their bodily autonomy & privacy and interfere with their genitals" IS a boundary, because it's about what you will/won't allow to happen to your child.
Please, please - keep your daughter out of grandma's clutches.

I think you need to talk to you mother in law and get her to understand that your ideas of hygiene are not the same as hers but it doesn't mean yours are wrong, and you're happy with your dds cleanliness as it is. Just a nice easy talk without bringing boundaries into it

Many sensible and considered replies from pp, OP. This, to me, is a serious safeguarding issue regarding your 4 year old for all the reasons mentioned.

Additionally it seems that your MIL may need some skilled MH assessment.... not so sure how you might go about that

But for now please protect your daughter before any further damage is done. Her complaints of pain are very worrying, imo. What exactly is she trying to tell the adults in her life?

Sounds like she has some kind of OCD.

I just wouldn't send my kids there.

This is just downright strange and an invasion of your daughters privacy she absolutely does not need to be washing your daughters private parts when she does to the toilet !!! She will end up doing more harm than good as she's constantly stripping away the good bacteria and oils that help keep a good pH balance causing thrush and all kinds you need to start advocating for your daughter and protect her from this insane woman before your daughter develops ocd or something imagine years down the line having to explain she's like this because her grandma cried that one time so now she's got this problem because you didn't put a stop to it .
Who's more important your daughter or the batshit MIL

This is not about you OP, it's about your daughter. You are uncomfortable with it and your daughter clearly doesn't like it. That's why it should stop - you need to stand up for your child. If she goes to follow her to the toilet you say no. Your attitude seems to be that MIL is doing it to get to you, and maybe she is, but you appear to miss the point that it must be awful for your child. You need to protect her from MILs (and anyone else) madness, before she leaves DD with some kind of hang up over toileting and cleanliness.

No mil is saying the paper clean must hurt. Why are you making things up?

Apologies Ozanj, I made a mistake posting and have since edited my post. However my point remains the same. If you and your daughter are not comfortable with what MIL is doing, then you (and her father) need to stop her.

THIS!
Toilet paper just isn't as clean and hygienic as water.

Also wet wipes can't be flushed and just go into landfill.

I'd say that it's likely cultural.

Something about your MiL's behaviour is off. I'd not send her over alone and I'd be policing the toilet to ensure she didn't go in when your DD was in there. Nothing wrong with moist toilet wipes.

Could your MIL have some sort of dementia? When my mum got ill, one of the first things we noticed was totally freaking out about how we'd all end up really ill if we weren't clean. Especially with nappies. I mean granted my son's were gross sometimes, but we had a few changes where it was almost like no-one had figured out how anyone involved in a nappy change could NOT end up seriously ill for days after.

This needs to stop OP. At four, a child should know that they can say no to hugs and kisses from grandma if they don’t want one, never mind them washing their genitals!

1. she’s four, grandma does not need to help wash her
2. grandma was told to stop by yourself and instead of agreeing, or being slightly offended if a bit sensitive, she cried. That’s manipulation.
3. she is doing it behind your back
4. she has been weird about your daughter’s genitals before
5. your daughter needs to know that that area is private, even from grandma, unless in an emergency

Do not leave your daughter alone with her! It doesn’t mind whether your daughter dislikes it or not, that is entirely against the point. Regardless of whether grandma was being creepy/disobeying your instructions or not, it’s time for you daughter to clean herself there by herself and learn that no one else is to ever touch that area.

I’m sorry but absolutely no one apart from her mother or father should be washing her private’s regularly. Huge invasion of privacy not only forcing DD to have her private’s washed but going to the toilet with her everytime. You need to be firm and tell her it’s completely unnecessary and quite frankly weird behaviour.

I find it strange that MiL said your little girl was sore when the child had clearly said she wasn’t… it’s as if MiL wants her to be sore so she can wash her or put cream on etc… whatever is going on it’s not normal behaviour and you really need to stop it.
The tears and accusations that you are being nasty when you told her to stop is also very odd behaviour..

At the very least, please make sure that your daughter is never left alone with this woman. And if she needs to go to the toilet, make sure MiL doesn’t go with her, even if you have to be really rude… MiL X doesn’t need you to go with her she’s 4. MiL why do you keep following X to the loo? That’s really odd behaviour… MiL you are obsessed with X on the toilet which is really pervy. Stop it now.

You need to protect your daughter.
The other issue is when she starts school she may well mention how grandma always washes her privates etc and the school may refer to SS. It needs to stop now.

OP, you have probably had enough messages now confirming your fears;
if you are still questioning this after 4 years you need to hear it.

There is no reasonable explanation for your MIL's behaviour so stop trying to reason with this person. She is either demented or a pervert . Keep your child as far away possible. Her influence can only be seen as nocive.