MIL and washing my child...

[sibk]

I have posted here before about this, but my post was removed and I don't know why.

I'll try and say it again, slightly differently.

My MIL seems obsessed with my DD's hygiene. Since she was a baby. Telling me not to use wet wipes and use water for example. It sort of stared with that.

She'd often say it's better just to wash them at nappy changes, rather than use wipes. Apparently she used to always wash her children at nappy changes.

Since my DD is toilet trained, it's like every time she goes to the toilet with her ( she sort of invites herself in ). She always goes on about how she needs to be washed.

MIL doesn't look after DD a lot but whenever she does go to her house, DD tells me that she washes her. It's like she's always making a massive deal out of her hygiene.

MIL would also often tell me that DD went to the toilet and was only cleaned with toilet paper and I should wash her. Etc.

I told her I find it a bit annoying to be constantly reminded of having to wash my child. She also claims DD says it ' hurts '. Even when I'm right in ear shot, DD will be on the toilet and MIL will be hovering over her and saying ' it hurts doesn't it ', then DD will say ' no ' and MIL reports back saying DD is sore.

I can't help but think she thinks there's a problem ( since birth ) in how I wash my child or something and I find it annoying and intrusive.

For the record, I bathe DD regularly and I also wash her in between, just to make sure she's fresh and clean. So I don't really see what her issue is. But like I said, it's been like this since birth.

I find it instructive and just annoying. DD went over last week and said she was washed there when I suggested to wash before bed, she said ' but grandma already washed me '. It pisses me off. Am I being ridiculous ?

unless there is some kind of cultural nuance I’m not grasping - she sounds nuts? What is she saying that hurts? because if you don’t wash you’ll hurt? And how does she wash her? Is it some kind of bum gun or is she washing her with a cloth?

Is she generally like this about hygiene?

I think as you don’t need her for childcare I’d be looking at not leaving her there unsupervised. It’s very odd behavior

You need to have a serious conversation where you tell her all comments about washing need to stop and clarify that wetwipes with a bath once a day is normal.

If she's potty training she old enough to start teaching about privacy now too. Next time she tries to go to the toilet with DD say "DD goes independently now, if she needs help she knows to just ask me as we're teaching about privacy in preparation for school."

If she mentions washing again tell her "remember washing is private, she's getting too old for extended family to be talking about her washing her privates it will start to get embarrassing soon."

She needs to back off; I would consider this massively intrusive

Tell her that you don't want to fall out with her over this but as you can tell by what she has said and done since DD was born, this clearly is a hill that she is willing to die on, it's a line in the sand moment for you too. She is not to accompany your DD into the toilet any more.
Your DD will be starting school soon and must be fully able to look after her toilet requirements herself.
You are also not going to allow DD to visit her or stay over with Grandma any more because of this issue.
You are even a little concerned at MiL because this is something that she has clearly been instructed about and carries with her as an issue and you don't want her passing it on to your DD as an issue. Being a girl in this world is difficult enough without grandparents adding things like this to their plate.
Even if your DD ends up with slightly dirty pants as a result of her not accompanying her, that is for you, your DD's mother, to sort out and not for her to concern herself with.

I read the title and thought to myself, "This is going to be another Mumsnetter with MiL and pfb issues." Then I read the OP.

Do NOT allow this creepy, obsessed woman to care for your child again.

MIL must have some kind of personal hygiene OCD issue (given to her by her own mum no doubt) which she will pass to your DD if you don't stop it.

You were absolutely right to tell her a few months ago. Tough if she was upset and cried Her tears do not trump your DD's privacy. She needs to learn boundaries. Yours and your daughters.

A NT four year old can use the toilet perfectly well by themselves and there is no need for your MIL to a) accompany her anymore and b) certainly no requirement for MIL to wash your daughter.

When you visit her again, and when your DD needs the loo make sure MIL does not accompany her and ensure there is no chat afterwards about washing/cleaning. If she goes against what you ask, you don't go again.

How utterly bizarre.

Don't let your daughter go to MIL's house.

Then she shouldn't need to take her to the toilet, dd only goes with you.

Your 4 year old will have issues about using the toilet and hygiene. You absolutely do not want this to happen.
I would just not let her have your dd unsupervised.

you’ve had lots of really good gentle advice on this thread. So I'm going to give you the nuclear button response because of the damage I’ve seen this kind of thing do to children who are then adults.

“Hi MIL, please don’t accompany DD to the bathroom anymore and please stop “washing” her intimate areas, this is intrusive, not necessary and making us uncomfortable. DD is perfectly clean and able to wipe herself. Also please limit discussing this topic around DD, I don’t want her to have a complex around washing and being clean when she is older”

you sound like you’ve said similar already. I have a friend who has severe OCD to the point where she makes herself bleed due to interference from a parent around germs, being clean, dirty, sore, unclean etc. when she was a child. She also has issues with being intimate with her partner and has had therapy for it but it’s deep rooted.

if the above doesn’t stop it (which it hasn’t) I would absolutely threaten my MIL with action from an outside authority. You wouldn’t need to actually call anyone but I would go as far as to hammer it home

“MiL you appear to be obsessed with my daughter’s intimate areas, areas which are private and I have told you to leave alone. If you interfere with my daughter again I will not only stop contact I will inform social services”

If this were a grandfather I’m sure most replies would have been it’s a red flag

people will say this is going nuclear as it’ll ruin your relationship. But honestly, having grown up with awful grandparents who my parents didn’t do a thing about so as to not rock the boat, I can tell you now at 38 years old I still resent my parents for not taking charge and I still tell them and remind them when I’m feeling particularly blue and my mum plays the perfect parent act. They are always mortified when I remind them that they didn’t stick up for my rights and my wellbeing, but the damage is done and they have seen it and they know it, but it’s too late.

so no I don’t care if I go nuclear on people like your MIL, if it were one of my daughters I’d have done it a long time ago due to my own past and my friends history and now mental health issues.

Maybe shes got some sort of ocd god knows ..and old people...loosing their marbles...

and I'd let her wash her if she can be bothered to do it every time its actually good .. but yea bit obsessive

Would you say the same if it were the grandfather doing this?

What are you talking about a 4 year old doesn't need a wash after going for a pee !

Do you bath her every night? Just wondering if you don't, then MIL wants to ensure she is bathed regularly.
And, like others have said at 4 she should be capable of wiping herself and not need help after going to the toilet.

I think you should just tell mil your dd doesn't need help in the toilet anymore as she's going to school in Sept and can manage herself just fine and that she'll have a daily bedtime bath at home. If she insists in this weird behaviour don't send her there alone.

Maybe shes got some sort of OCD. God knows ..and old people...losing their marbles.....

Would you mind not spouting this ageist nonsense.

You seem more concerned about upsetting MIL than how this will affect your child
Start advocating for your daughter NOW
Do not let her in the bathroom with your daughter and only let her visit when you are there, and if she gets upset TOUGH.
Your daughters safety and future mental health trumps your MIL tears and tantrums

It's a very strange thing for MiL to invite herself into the toilet Poor DD, she needs to learn privacy is the norm and MiL actually seems obsessed. It's not creepy as such, just unnecessary.
I would tell her firmly DD needs to develop confidence in her ability to go alone.
If she continues I simply would stop her going to MiL's

Is she from a religion that has to wash every time they go to the toilet?

There was a thread on here years ago about a batshit MIL removing the DC to spread cream over their genitals and also internally.

This thread gives me the same vibes.

You need to stop this woman from interfering with your child's genitals.

Your MIL sounds creepy and weird.

You actually had a conversation where you told her to stop this inappropriate behaviour. Then, if I'm reading your posts correctly, she ignored what you said and washed your DD's private parts secretly without your permission? Massive massive red flag OP.

Even if there is no creepy motive behind this, I would be supervising all visits from now on and ensuring MIL does not go into the bathroom with your child. Protect your child from this woman.

I agree. There are often threads with posters afraid to use public toilets on them. You don't want your DD to end up like that.

Absolutely! Yep, me I’m one of these people. A friend of mine noticed it as we were all on holiday together and I would always go back to the room to use the loo. I had to explain why and not show how embarrassing it is. This was caused by my grandmother, and now I have girls of my own I have to pretend to use public toilets so they don’t pick up on it and wonder why mummy doesn’t use them. Years of water, bladder and kidney infections; all because I had a grandmother like this and my parents didn’t want to upset anyone because their daughter’s needs came second to risking a family disagreement.

I think this is because she's from another country. In many places around the world (including much of Europe and Asia) people will wash their private parts with soap and water after going to the loo. They'll either use a bidet, a Japanese style toilet or a "bum gun". They think you're not clean if you only use toilet paper.
So while this seems creepy to many - it sounds pretty normal to me. My own DH and MIL are from Southern Europe and always insisted the kids were washed with water after going to the toilet.
I can understand it's highly irritating that they keep telling you to do this but I don't think it's creepy.

Even if the OP didn't bath her DD every single day it is none of her MILs business.

Some people both adults and children are advised not to bathe every single day due to skin issues. And when they do bathe or rather shower they have to use certain products.

Added to that the child is 4. 4 year olds don't need bathing every single day. In fact my DD has a shower most days rather than a bath and started at 3.

@OP it sounds like your MIL is arbitrarily washing your daughter's private parts. Unless your daughter has soiled herself and is unable to clean her own genitalia, this is absolutely not ok. She will be / will have learned about PANTS at school if she has started year R, and as a PP has said, if she mentions her grandma washes her vulva whenever she has a wee etc then yes, a safeguarding referral is likely to be raised.

"My daughter's genitals are absolutely none of your business MIL. If you mention or touch them by washing again you will no longer have a relationship with her".

The end.