Working mums (of more than 1) are selfish

[Drearymee]

Is a line a heard today at a birthday party for my eldest (5). Most of the mums don’t work or work part time and were waxing lyrically how selfish it is for mums of more than 1 to be working FT. Lines such as ‘you only get the time once’ ‘you miss so much’ ‘ a career can wait’ ‘mums like that are a bit selfish, especially with more than one’

i pointed out I work FT out of necessity, but it’s probably more priorities (we have relatively high expenses). Mums got a bit sheepish then.

is this a commonly held belief; I honestly felt so judged.

i can’t work out if it was actual pure judgement for working mums or maybe justifying a choice/ decision not to work professionally speaking?

i don’t know I’d never go around judging a mum for not working or going part time. You do you. Is this a commonly held belief?

deep down do you think it’s selfish of mums of young kids to work, esp when you don’t ’have to’?

I guess if it's selfish to work then it's also selfish not to work.

Non working mums can dress it up any way they want: it's best for the kids, the most important job in the world, they put their kids first etc. But the reality is some people just don't want to work. Their choice but just say so.

My ds is 3 months. Going back to work at 5 month. I hate its so early but i have to. I live in a foreign country so i need my work visa. Also im a teacher in the best school in the city. My kids are guaranteed a place there if i work there. We don't need the money but we need my job for his education.

I also see it as a good life experience. My son gets to play with other kids and learn lots of social skills. I see so many kids who have sahm who dont know how to share and play with other kids.

I’m a SAHM and find this attitude odd. Without working mums there wouldn’t have been the incredible HV I had when my eldest was born who was a lifeline to me when I was really low, or many of the teachers at the school he’ll go to, or the midwives who delivered my children, the women who run the groups we go to every week, our amazing GP… and the list goes on, obviously.

I find that people who judge someone else’s parenting choices are just insecure with their own. I’ve heard all the reasons being a SAHM is a bad thing, but it’s the choice I made and I’m happy with it.

In the UK women can take 1 year of mat leave so breastfeeding rates shouldn't be affected by working FT.

I breastfed my first till 2.5 and still breastfeeding my 1 year old despite going back to work last week.

My first really thrived at nursery. My second has been there a week and loves it so much she doesn't really want to leave. They give her much more mental stimulation and a range of activities I wouldn't be able to provide at home.

In reception you can tell which kids didn't go to nursery - they are really shy and in my daughter's class they all struggled making relationships with their peers. The ones doing best went to nursery from a young age (full or part time). This could be a coincidence of course, but spending a good amount of time with other kids their own age and forming relationships with different people can only be a good thing in my view. Ideally part time work would be the best for most parents, but for some it's just not possible.

I don't judge people for it. I wouldn't want to do it, but that's not the same thing.

I do think it's less than ideal for small children to spend long hours in childcare. If both parents are choosing to work FT (rather than having to) then I think both parents are being a bit thoughtless/ selfish. But there's literally no one where I would know whether they're choosing to work FT or whether they need to, so in reality I'm not judging anyone for that!

And plenty of people judge me because my 3 year old isn't in childcare at all. So it definitely goes both ways.

I always used to reply just as flippantly "Oh, I don't know, it's rather fun to be able to pay the mortgage and bills, I always think."

I went back to full time work 14 years ago when my daughter was 5 months old, that was in the UK!
Much is made of the 12 months maternity leave here however it very much depends if it is affordable for your family, in my case it wasn't. My aim with both my children was to get them sleeping as much as possible through the night so I could go to work in the morning! (News flash, neither of them slept and I was a zombie for about 5 years🤣)
Personally I don't think I was selfish, it needed two of us to be earning to survive. No high flying careers here unfortunately. All of the riding lessons, music lessons, scout camps, holidays, visits to theme parks were paid for because we both work, I can't say I really enjoy my 8 hours a day in the office so I see it as a sacrifice that I work rather than something I am doing for shits and giggles 🤷‍♀️

Yes, this too. I was also judged when I did take a career break with DDs. "What do you even do all day?"

It's best to learn early on that a mother's place is in the wrong, and develop the hide of a rhino.

The people that I know that do it simply see benefits as their right and just don't consider working at all, not necessarily bragging that they're doing it for the money. My sister started trying to get pregnant as soon as she met her first boyfriend. She has never worked. My brother is a single dad to one ten year old and hasn't worked in 20 years. They saw my parents not working, that's the way of life they chose. They would rather their kids be poor than get off their arses.

I don't know anyone who thinks that working mums are selfish, or at least anyone who will say it out loud. Though i do hear a lot of judgement for mums who don't work, which i don't agree with. Most mums i know work full time or close to. I would never think that mums who work normal full time hours, and who are otherwise there for their children, are selfish no matter if it's out of necessity or choice. However, i will admit that i would be a little judgmental if someone chose to consistently work significantly longer than normal full time hours due to my own experience growing up.

I had a mother who chose to go back to work when i was 3 weeks old. She was usually out the house 12 to 14 hours every weekday. After work and at weekends i was expected not to bother her with anything because she was tired from work. She never knew what was happening in my life, and didn't notice when i was struggling with severe mental health issues. This is the kind of working mother i mean when i say that.

People who come out with this kind of shite are just sad individuals who are trying to desperately to validate their own choices in life by criticising others.

Don't give them the time of day. They are not worth it.

Don't take any notice. The person who made the comments is being judgey and ignorant. She will change her attitude completely when her marriage fails for whatever reason, she hasn't maintained her career and suddenly finds herself unable to provide her children with a home.

In fact her comments may be envy (she's bored, stuck at home on her own all day), or concern that everyone else is getting on with their careers, having intelligent and stimulating conversations and building their skills while she's at home having 'does the king poo' conversations.

Just ignore her. As you say, you do you.

Thankyou for this, this is exactly the set up I will have next year when I go back to work and I was already feeling guilty as a few of my friends partners wages are enough to allow my friends to be SAHM’s. I’m glad it’s working for your family. For us we need a larger home, so I have to work so we can afford one!

Whilst I agree that child rearing should be seen as a joint endeavor, I disagree with almost everything else you have written.

It is important that we do debate this issue because it's so important. How we care for the most vulnerable in our society who can't advocate for themselves is important. It isn't necessarily true that just because the modern world demands for both parents to work long hours that this is in the best interest of little babies, children and even the parents. This is a relatively new phenomenon from an evolutionary perspective and it's important that we sense check that this is the right thing to do.

We also need to break the misogyny that laces both sides of the debate at the moment. There shouldn't be an automatic assumption that women have more childcare responsibility than men or that they should be the ones that make the career sacrifice if it is felt that a child will not thrive for long hours in a childcare setting Equally we also need to stop assuming that women that want to stay at home with their children are 'looking for an excuse not to work' as you put it so eloquently. It is such a misogynistic stance that seeks to undermine and belittle anyone that does prioritise staying at home with their children. No wonder men aren't flocking to pull their weight with childcare when it has been devalued so heavily by our capitalist, patriarchal society.

I worked part time when mine were young, and I moved up to full time when they were around 10 so I could leave my husband. That was about 20 years ago and if I'd given up work completely , I'd have had a way worse staring point when I decided to leave.

I suppose that was selfish of me, but I'd also advise my daughter to keep her options open and not limit her choices and ability to support herself.

I can't imagine anything more wonderful than spending years at home, being financially supported when your babies are small. But had I done that, I would be living a very different life now.

I’m grateful everyday to my parents for working so hard.

Selfish is a good word to use to put other people down. You can call people selfish for lots of reasons, for having children at all, in this overcrowded world, or for not having children, because you want to live a life where you are not encumbered by offspring. It could be selfishness which causes you to withhold care for your aging parents, or to choose a career which involves travelling.
Ignore! ignore! ignore! It's just one of many ways to make yourself sound better than others, and it is hard to refute.

Are they aware that girls who have a mum who works is more likely to secure a better career than girls who have mums who don’t work, so technically, statistically speaking, you could argue being a stay at home mum is selfish as you’re potentially reducing their life chances and earning potential. But sadly those particular people at the party probably desire their own daughters to be unemployed and financially reliant on someone else.

Its the hardest thing to have DC and work FT - and probably contributed in part to my PND at 3 months when I had to return to work. However we got through it, DC settled in well and I've enjoy my work.
The last 4 generations of my family (and probably more going back) have all been working mums - because they were widowed young, divorced, separated, or husbands had poor health. Or they enjoyed their work as it made a valued contribution outside their home. They all stepped up to feed and clothe their families. Some had left school at 12yo to work, others went to Uni, but they all juggled their work and children because they needed to be financially stable and provide for their DCs.
If you are a SAHM good luck to you but it makes you vulnerable financially if life throws you a curveball - you never know how your life will play out.

I don't think it's selfish. It's not the ideal for most people. I feel lucky that I was able to go back to work part-time after having my son. I appreciate that some want to go back FT, and others have to.

I don't feel I've been judged for working in general but I have at times felt judged for taking less than a year of mat leave and for going back full time. Ironically part of my reason for doing this is because I really valued my Mum being a SAHM and being there for me when I got home from school. So I felt like I wanted to get to a career point where I had choices once DS was a bit older, which, partly by luck, I have done. I'm now in a relatively well paid job but have had flexibility to reduce to school hours so best of both worlds. My DS doesn't remember nursery but he does appreciate I'm there after school now, which was more important to me (although there are still pros and cons and I know it's not for everyone).
The people who I felt have judged me more recently when I said I worked full time when he was a baby failed to recognise this at all in terms of the bigger picture.

The Mums I know now who don't work have never really had any career prospects so I don't really relate to their situations anyway.

The people I know who have had time out of the workplace are also disproportionately expected to still be primary caregiver by their partners, which would drive me mad. Its hugely important to me that DS is equally happy with 'just me' or 'just DH'.

I don't get how having 'more than 1' is relevant!

I don’t think it’s selfish either, but I do think it’s hard on children. I understand why mothers do it though, whether it’s money or career happiness. I don’t think there’s a right or wrong answer. I personally choose to work part time as it keeps me sane.

We could afford for one of us to give up work. We discussed it and both of us decided to go back to work when our child was 12m. We took shared parental leave so both experienced being the default parent and the working parent.

Funnily nobody has even mentioned my husband going back to work, they have Asked me though why I’m going back full time. We do very similar jobs so most people would know we earn the same.

If you birth a baby you’re judged whatever you do. It’s taken a few years now but I don’t let it bother me. Our set up works for our family, I feel no guilt and we thrive. Leave it to those who aren’t as happy with their life choices do the judging.

If they have to then it's not selfish, it's a necessity. But I really question little children being put into nursery full time if it could be avoided.

Yes I know childcare is frigging hard and not natural to everyone, but it makes me sad when children aged 9 months are signed up for full-time or day after day in a nursery.

A good friend of mine has done this, now she hasn't got a selfish bone in her body, but I think she's been misinformed about nursery and not seeing it from the child's point of view. I would never say anything to her though.

„What always kills me in these situations is that there is NEVER any mention of dads in these types of debates (usually, but not always, started by women).“

because women are interested in what it is like for other women. If they were dads it would probably be hey dads over 50, are you fed up with working? People are obviously more interested in people like themselves. Strange hmmmmmm