To not support 17 year old DS in getting a car?

[TrickStan]

DH and DS are both badgering me about getting him driving for his 17th birthday. I completely disagree.

We’ve costed lessons, a cheap but decent car and insurance and it is already looking at around £7k. Although we do have that money, we are currently also trying to redecorate and redo areas of our house and garden, we aren’t quite sure of costings yet.

My main issue with it, aside from the up front cost, is that I do not want to fund the ongoing costs of another car. We already have two between DH and I, and I can already foresee DS coming to us asking for petrol money, insurance, MOT, servicing, repairs (which let’s face it, on an older car is quite likely!) I didn’t get a car until I had a proper ‘adult’ job, had left education and could afford all costs. I’ve said he could do lessons and his test, then think about a car once he’s finished college but he’s moaning.

Their solution is that DS will get a job. But, as I’ve explained to them both, he might find keeping a job and doing his A Levels plus social life a struggle… also all of his earnings would be going on the car! When I pointed this out to DH, he said that DS can just sell the car if he can’t afford it, which I think is ridiculous and will only lead to DS being more upset than if he hadn’t had the car in the first place.

AIBU to think a car for most 17 year olds is pretty silly? We do not live rurally. We are within walking distance of a train and we have access to buses. Plus we have never been tight about giving him / his friends lifts.

The way I have done it is for my DS's 17th birthday I gave him:
His provisional driving licence
10 driving lessons
Theory test
Driving test

He got some money from grandparents for more driving lessons and the rest he'll pay for himself. He works and has quite a lot of savings.

He is planning to get a car and insurance from his Child Trust Fund money.

Also @stressedespresso a lot of those 'nervous adults' you mention tried and failed as teenagers... precisely due to your attitude. Saying that 67 hours of driving is far too much.
Nerves come from somewhere, there are also quite a few threads of people's DC being unable to pass, and they usually involve either a shouty parent or a lack of patience at progress.

The official website shows that 67 hours of driving is fine. As long as the learner is making progress and the driving instructor/whoever takes them to practice is happy, however many hours any individual takes is fine. For planning and budgeting purposes, understanding that you might need more is fine.

I'm not sure what anecdotes like 'everyone I knew did it in less time' achieves, other than creating undue pressure. After all, if someone planned for more and pass sooner, it's a welcome bonus.

Driving instructors (the good ones) rarely want to keep a student on for longer just to make money btw.... they have a massive backlog, again depending on the area. They're not short of work.

Like you I work in the NHS. I think it is very normal for us to work lots and study lots. So we expect it in our DC too.

I've helped with lessons but that's all, ds 1 did a crash course at 21.

Ds2 is 21 and isn't interested. He could afford to fund his own lessons if he wanted to but then he worked from 16 and still works now while at uni . I couldn't afford to buy them cars or pay their insurance even if I wanted to

I’d encourage you to support your DS getting his license if you can. We felt it was really important that ours all had licences but we live really rurally and it’s the norm for parents to pay for test/lessons/cars/insurance for the first few years at least. I don’t know anyone in our friendship circle who hasn’t done this tbh. 3 of ours were driving just after their 17th birthdays but they’d been driving on private land since they were around 14/15. We paid for a week long intensive driving course with the test at the end of it which was 12 hours. That was followed by a winter driving course of 10 hours. We wanted to give our children every opportunity never given to us, I remember working 2 part time jobs to fund my own lessons and car, I never wanted that for our children.

It depends on circumstances, where you live etc. Surely everyone wants to give their children every opportunity in life and imo driving is a life skill.

It's up to your ds what's more important, his social life or driving!

We are buying my dd driving lessons for her 17th, and I've been saving and have 2k for a car. We've looked at insurance and we've got the insurance down to between 1500 and £1800 a year. This is on her to save. She has 3 jobs at the moment and has just finished her GCSE's . She's working at least 3 days a week until she starts collage on super which means she should be able to save up £2000 to cover her insurance etc. she's desperate to drive and understands the ongoing costs will be up to her too.

I never said that is is far too much, I said that most 17 year olds don’t need anywhere near that amount of lessons, hence OP planning for 67 (nearly £3k) would be excessive. Of course it’s a spectrum - some people need less, some people need more.

There are two issues here

1. Learning to drive & passing the driving test
2. Owning a car

No 1 is a key life skill which I would (have) support on the understanding that paying for it is their 17th birthday & Christmas present.
Owning a car is up to them, they need to find the money to buy it, insure it, maintain it and run it.

Both DTs passed their test but decided that having money for gap year stuff was more important than a car. We live on the outskirts of a city and public transport, users, bicycles and the parent taxi are all options.

I think its really important that young people understand that adult life involves making choices if you want X then you have to do Y and forego Z.

We paid for lessons, and the test - they worked and saved for their own car if they wanted one (not practical at many Unis due to parking), with a grandparental contribution. Is your DS going to Uni? If he's eg going to a city centre Uni as opposed to campus, such as Bristol where you really really don't want a car, then that's perhaps the best avenue - so when he can afford his own car he'll have had his licence a while. You can get insurance added to your own vehicle, where you can pop him on when he's home and might need a car, but take him off in term time, my friend's son has this but I forget who it is with.

Driving is obviously a life skill. Parents still don't owe kids a car and insurance.

It will cost £7k because insurance is roughly £2.5k - £3k, a decent but old car £3k - £4k, then lessons on top. I actually think £7k is on the low side as the car may well need services, MOT, tax etc.

I don’t understand how people afford to buy their DCs cars and keep up the associated costs until their DC’s can pay themselves. We are talking about an extra few thousand every year, at least until the insurance comes down, which can be years! We definitely don’t have that without changing our lifestyle, for instance sacrificing family holidays, and I don’t think the rest of the family should have to give up things because DS can’t wait a few years until he is working to get a car.

I’ll say it again as people seem confused. I am happy to fund lessons and the test, it’s the car that I’m against!

I don’t think the rest of the family should have to give up things because DS can’t wait a few years until he is working to get a car.

why on earth wouldn’t DS be working for “a few years”?

@FunZebra Because he’s planning on going to Uni, so he may not even need a car if he goes to one in a city centre. With a part time job, every scrap of his earnings would be going towards the upkeep of the car. Which is his prerogative, but I’m not sure how he will afford anything else at uni.

My son is at uni with a part time job and funds his car himself, I dont see why he wouldn't?

@stressedespresso Did you even bother to read my posts properly?
Nowhere did I say that 67 hours of lessons are the norm. 67 hours = lessons + private practice.

Most 17 year olds practice privately with a family member. In fact many actually learn to drive that way and only have lessons to polish/get test ready. There are plenty of threads on here with people doing this, having their teens drive them places etc which all add up.

Unless you know the schedules of every single one of your daughter's friends/other learners in minute detail, you're not going to know how much driving they've actually done before passing their test.

OP's son however won't have any of this. He has to rely solely on lessons, in which case the research based number of average driving hours , in my humble opinion is a good figure to budget for. Or at least, close to that.

Also if he needs to wait a while for the test, he'll need to pay for 'keeping up' lessons unlike people who can practice for free.

OP you both have luxury cars and are considering house renovations. You definitely can afford it without massively changing your lifestyle. You just don't want to, which is fair enough.

What I don't understand is the rush to make a decision now. The car is only useful, IMO if it's cheaper than relying on lessons + your son works to fund the running costs.

You'll only know the answer to the above questions when he actually starts lessons + part-time job. You don't have to say no now, just let him get on and see how things pan out.

If your husband feels that strongly he can swap his luxury car for a cheap runaround. Or, you can look into hiring a dual-control car for your son to practice in.
https://www.arnoldclarkrental.com/dual-control-hire

They can use their Child Trust fund to buy a car and then get a job for the insurance etc,.

Honestly @TrickStan as long as you get him passed his test which it sounds like you are doing then you have some valid points for your family. The rest absolutely can wait. I think your op is confusing as it says something about disagreeing with “getting your son driving”. Get him the ability to drive and when you are all in a better position then the car can come. Put him on your insurance meantime possibly. His uni accommodation and costs will be way more than a car anyway so you’ll be used to it when he’s finished uni and can help him get a car which he can maintain. Your son should have no opinion on whether you get him a car. This is between you and your husband. I agree with you though. If it’s going to cause problems then save your money for his uni costs and it’s very unlikely he will need a car then. Another option is a new car on pcp that includes insurance and you can give back after three years and he can get his own. I know people that do that and it’s quite cost effective. No other costs just fuel.

I don’t understand how people afford to buy their DCs cars and keep up the associated costs until their DC’s can pay themselves.

Really ?
You don't understand that everyone has different budgets ? Different incomes ? Different outgoings ? Different numbers of children ?

Do you understand that most families across the country don't pay for the driving lessons of someone who is old enough to drive ? Because a lot of families have much tighter budgets than yours, as well as the fact there are some families that have more 'spare money'.

I get your point OP but could you meet him halfway? Perhaps pay for driving lessons and insurance but your son finding PT work to purchase a car and keep it on the road? I fully appreciate that the costs of running a car are enormous and unpredictable and it would be unreasonable for you to expect to fund all this. If his life is on track and he is doing what he is supposed to be doing, I would consider the halfway approach

Even if you don’t support him getting a car - he should pass his test. It’s so much easier in the future.

However putting aside the driving issue, he should have a part time job like many others before him doing a levels.

no wonder kids these days have no skills when they’re being pampered like this!

Fortunate young man!

As this thread shows plenty of 'kids these days' got work as soon as they could. My 17yo has plenty of skills.

Please be aware that not everyone has the luxury of a child trust fund