To let you all know :Jane the mntter held keir to acct, brilliantly on radio today and it's viral.

[JaneVapeman]

Unfortunately I can't link to her clip, but she's a star and a hero. She pinned him down and cut through the "twaddle". I am a swing voter and would have been proud of a mntter holding any mp to account on an important issue like Jane did. Jane is/was even trending on twitter.

💥

Made me much more happy to vote labour actually…

Why should they have to find an alternative space to their own changing rooms?

It's funny how the men who are women don't give a tiny shit about the feelings, dignity or comfort of actual women. Like the man in the NHS nurses case. It's a classic example of that man gaslighting and coercively controlling / abusing those women, enthusiastically endorsed and supported by the NHS management.

Give him a separate changing room. Everyone has dignity and privacy. Sorted. But no, let's abuse women instead.

He doesn't want to 'feel comfortable' he wants to abuse women and he's getting his way.

If you see the women interviewed one of them in particular has body language which suggests she's been hurt.

Does anyone in the NHS care about her 'lived experience' 'vulnerability' or 'comfort'? Clearly not.

And these are the ones brave enough to stand up for themselves. This will be happening elsewhere with women cowed into silence. Exactly because they need to feed their kids.

Why should women find alternative facilities? Why is it down to them and not men who shouldn't be there in the first place? My mind boggles at this attitude.

You genuinely think women at their place of work should find somewhere else to change so that a man doesn’t have hurt feelings?

Blimey do you really prioritise men over women this much

Why?

I think it’s hard for some people to understand the visceral response to being in a space alone with a man. I automatically feel tense if there are men in changing rooms and I’m in a unisex hand washing area outside toilet cubicles. It’s unnerving. Like many women I have been felt up, grabbed, had comments made over the years and I automatically tense up when I know a man is in my “safe space”.

So you're saying 26 female nurses have to find another place to get changed (which some of them were - using the disabled toilet but presumably there's only one of them and what about the disabled people who need it?) just so one man has the free run of the entire women's changing room?

Doesn't sound like brilliant hygiene either, nurses getting changed in a toilet.

Fucking unbelievable. I hope you don't need nursing care in the NHS anytime soon. If your nurse isn't very available or is a bit distracted maybe it'll be the extra clothes she's wearing or the fact it's clear her employer gives no shits about her and she's forced to get changed in the disabled toilet.

Yeah and the women are the ones who need to be “re-educated” not him.

Again you haven’t answered the rest of my initial reply to you. What about communal change spaces? You’ve named a few yourself. The gym for example?

They reported it.
They were told they needed to be educated.
26 women told to change their beliefs and behaviour to protect the feelings of ONE male who is in the process of trying to get his female partner pregnant.
I doubt the hospital has enough private spaces for those 26 women to get changed.
Oh, wait. They do have a private space to accommodate those 26 women. It's called the women's changing room.

Oh and the sexual harrassment WAS reported and the women were told to fuck off / 'reeducate' themselves. The NHS trust has done nothing about that for a year.

Seriously, are these NHS HR managers getting HR training from the Taliban or something? The way they're treating women is appalling. The double standards are appalling. How can they put the wants of ONE man over the fair treatment of TWENTY SIX nurses.

It's called bridging and it's one of the first media techniques you are taught as an aspiring politician. Sadly it means that (as evidenced by KS) answering any question simply becomes a matter of spouting the line that you want to talk about. Whenever KS is asked about VAWG, he refers to his time in the CPS and it makes me want to scream! I don't really care about what you did 10 years ago, I want to know what you are going to do now. Frankly, if he can't even bring himself to condemn the threats against his own candidate, then I can't trust him on VAWG
Deeds not words Kier, deeds not words

I suppose it depends on what he means by 'safe'.

I assume when I read these cases that

1 they’ve had their training from stonewall who lie about what the law says

2 they rely on female socialisation ie that the women will be accommodating

3 they know full well the TW is likely to go nuclear if they don’t get their way and, escalate it as far as they can and they’re afraid of the consequences

Oh please. Is that the best argument you can find? Letting men into women’s spaces is oppressive to women. Abolishing women’s right to have single-sex meetings is oppressive. Given that men commit more than 90% of sex offences, pretending that if a man says “I’m a woman” he’s suddenly, magically, not a threat any more — that’s oppressive to women.

Of course this isn’t the only form of oppression. But please don’t pretend it somehow stops women caring about any other issues.

The only hope is he won't have a large majority and there are plenty of other party MPs.

You'll get cheerleaders here. In the meantime in the real world the patriarchy are delighted some women turn on trans people as it distracts them from women's actual oppressors. NOT any kind of heroine. Handmaiden.

How can anyone be this dense? Honestly? 🤦‍♀️

I thought (to start with) she asked the question again of protecting biological women's spaces well, he answered again, saying yes he will , but then she just kept interrupting and not letting him finish. I find that rude and difficult to listen to, it's annoying.

It was good she cut him off from what he had done to what he will do - but she sounded more like she just wanted to just shout at him, and that she had already made her mind up about the answers rather than actually letting him speak.

Unconvincingly faux-naïf.

Agreed.

Where I thought MN-Jane shone through was when Starmer was harking back to what he used to do (past record in his CPS role) Jane basically told him "Look, I'm not interested in hearing you talk about what you used to do, I want you to tell me what you're going to do in the future" - it felt so satisfying having a strong determined woman's voice not allowing him to get away with that!

Starmer kept dodging the issue, going back to what he did, and Jane wouldn't let him get away with that. I noticed Nick Campbell getting frustrated at him squirming out of his future commitment.

Well done Jane.

I don't like Kier Starmer but I like him more than most of the Tories.

Despite his weak stance on women's rights and the trans issue, it's not enough to stop me voting Labour because what is the real alternative? Education, health, welfare, the economy and the wider views of the party and it's local MPs as a whole is more important at this moment in time.

Exactly. They are (deliberately) using the mealy mouthed phrase 'safe spaces' rather than the (correct) phrase 'single sex services and spaces as allowed by the Equality Act 2010'. And those services and spaces (of which several examples are given within the EQA2010 guidance, including rape crisis services and changing rooms in department stores) allow for the exclusion of even those with a GRC.

The single sex exceptions in the EQA2010 allow for the dignity and safety of women. Single sex allowances in sports, as detailed in a separate section of the EQA2010 also allows for fairness for women in sporting events.

The suggestion by a pp that the (20 odd) women remove themselves from the changing room area provided for their use, to prioritise the feelings of one man is quite staggering.

This next few days are going to be torture. I will be glad when this election is over. I'm sick of people and their bloody opinions and trying to convince everyone else to vote how they think they should vote - based just on one issue in the massive fucking ocean of problems this country has.

Just bloody vote for a party and let everyone vote for theirs.

I'm glad he was challenged on this. There needs to be some sort of resolution and it needs to be talked about, but I also think we should support trans people too. It's just everyone is determined to be completely polarised on this it seems.