To let you all know :Jane the mntter held keir to acct, brilliantly on radio today and it's viral.

[JaneVapeman]

Unfortunately I can't link to her clip, but she's a star and a hero. She pinned him down and cut through the "twaddle". I am a swing voter and would have been proud of a mntter holding any mp to account on an important issue like Jane did. Jane is/was even trending on twitter.

💥

Of course men should simply ‘stop being violent’, but single sex spaces are more than that. It’s about female dignity, a recognition that our sex is different and have needs to accommodate that fact. A young girl on her period shouldn’t have to share toilets with males in schools or anywhere else. Share a changing room with them during PE or out shopping on a Saturday. And what about those with religious beliefs who say men and women shouldn’t share spaces? Who’s belief system should ‘win out’ in those circumstances?

Furthermore, I don't want men and boys to be the victims of violence either. If the male toilet isn't safe for my female child, then why is it fine for my male child?

Is this a serious question? Do you genuinely think males are as vulnerable to attack from other males in enclosed spaces? Or general uncomfortableness? Men attack women based on our sex, not just because they wake up one day and feel like attacking or sexually assaulting someone close by.

The issue is male violence, not trans people.

Again, you are not accepting there is a crossover in the issue. The key word is ‘male’, that is irrelevant to the trans. Not the other way around.

I don't get the dignity/privacy thing if we are divorcing that from violence. How is it undignified? Any more so than undressing in front of another 'biological woman'.

What did Sunak say to Brianna’s mum? I must be living under a rock.

In the real world TW are biological men and therefore merely a subset of the patriarchy. The actions of many trans rights activists who attempt to shut down women's voices is just one more example of patriarchal entitlement in the long history of male violence against women who disagree with them.

Yes repetition of lines

His first response was bog standard CPS one which Jane handled brilliantly

He then switched between them

We still do not know how he intends to deal with men with GRCs other than allow access

A biological man with a GRC can use biological women's spaces. Keir wants to make it easier to get a GRC, which is very concerning. It means more biological men will find it easier to get access to biological women's spaces.

Unless Keir specifically says that biological men, INCLUDING those with a GRC, will not have access to biological women's spaces, then everything coming out of his mouth on this subject is 'twaddle'.

He could very easily clear the issue up if he wanted to reassure women. He obviously doesn't want to and it's obvious why.

Unconvincingly faux-naïf.

@LostTheMarble I have absolutely no idea which changing rooms you are using in shops which are not individual rooms. Periods can be dealt with in an individual bathroom stall, as they already are?

THIS. He's on the side of the man who made 26 female nurses uncomfortable and forced some of them to have to go to work in 2 sets of clothing. It's really clear.

https://www.employmentlawreview.co.uk/female-nhs-nurses-changing-room-trans-colleague-north-east-foundation-trust/

@Mirabai It's the unwillingness to accept other people think differently from you isn't it. I mean if you really care about dignity and privacy, find an individual space. I genuinely cannot think of many spaces which have shared changing facilities (other than maybe pools, gyms, school sports) and all these places have individual rooms too...

I'm voting Labour, the Tories have done and will do nothing for the benefit of women. But stuff like this puts the issue in the spotlight and hopefully may make Labour realise how important it is and how many people feel strongly about it.

Do you mean men should find an individual space?

Why prioritise male feelings over women and girls?

Changing rooms are open spaces, a thin curtain doesn’t negate that. You haven’t addressed the other points I have raised either.

Why should women have to change their behaviour to accommodate a man?

Because transwomen are biological men, moreover they may not use medication or have had surgery (most don’t have surgery and are genitally intact men).

All because a very tiny minority of genuine trans (ie mot merely using GRC) are “traumatised” without any consideration of the trauma that a far greater number of women have experienced from men.

Cheers for bringing this to my attention. Had a good think overnight and have decided I’ll no longer be voting Labour. Nor will my DH

(not that it’ll make a difference here. Polls say we’re going from Conservative to “likely Labour”)

You 'genuinely' couldn't think of many spaces with shared changing facilities and went on to name three...

Women and girls do have individual spaces. Are you suggesting we should remove ourselves from them to appease men who shouldn’t be in there to start with?

@Respectgoesbothways well I look forward to reading about that case progressing then and being reported in a more reputable place because frankly that was extremely poor journalism.

I struggle to believe these women could not have found an alternative space to get changed if they felt uncomfortable. The sexual harassment should be reported as it would be if it happened anywhere else or by anyone else, and due procedure followed.

You’ve never been to a shop/gym/swimming pool with communal changing rooms? Some have a few cubicles which are often full, and some don’t.

I don't need to be lectured. I've voted Labour and was quite happy to do so. People have a range of concerns and reasons for making their choices.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13580269/Moment-furious-BBC-caller-tears-Keir-Starmer-flip-flopping-protecting-womens-spaces-tells-half-population-sick-absolute-twaddle-comes-mouth.html
I put this on James thread as well.
Watch his hand at the word twaddle.
Clench your fist like that.
That is anger people.
Anger at how dare Jane a woman not agree with him a man...

@LostTheMarble you know perfectly well what I mean by individual places. For one person. But thanks for adding nothing to the argument.