To let you all know :Jane the mntter held keir to acct, brilliantly on radio today and it's viral.

[JaneVapeman]

Unfortunately I can't link to her clip, but she's a star and a hero. She pinned him down and cut through the "twaddle". I am a swing voter and would have been proud of a mntter holding any mp to account on an important issue like Jane did. Jane is/was even trending on twitter.

💥

Hard work,dedication and not enough B12.

It's just everyone is determined to be completely polarised on this it seems

Jane did say though that they should have their own space, a third space for trans people, so that element must mean she is OK with that being recognised.

What did Sunak say to Brianna’s mum? I must be living under a rock.

He didn't say anything. He referenced Keir Starmer's tendency to flip flop on things, including the definition of a woman in a way that was supposed to get a laugh from the Tory side, which it did. It didn't reference Brianna Ghey in any way.

I'm not a fan of Sunak particularly but what Starmer did was shameful. He hammed it up melodramatically (as did all the Labour MPs, some of whom were in mid jeer) and put a faux solemn face on and made a big thing about Brianna's mother visiting Parliament that day, therefore dragging her into it himself. She wasn't actually there at the time as she hadn't arrived yet. He's brought this non incident up to get at Sunak at least three times now, and as we see is using it to dodge questions from members of the public.

but I also think we should support trans people too

Who is saying we shouldn't support trans people?

The problem is that if demanding access to women's spaces is deemed to be vital to 'support' - how can that be squared with women's need for single sex spaces?

I really want trans people to have their own spaces where they can feel safe. It is up to them to campaign for that just as women continue to campaign for our rights. I am sure that I and other women would support them.

I know I am derailing but I hate being in female only therapeutic spaces with trans. Every now and then masculinity will assert itself. And I know that there isn’t a single woman in the space who would ever behave like that. It is so fucking demoralising and defeats the object of a female only therapeutic space, and those controlling fuckers know it.

Support trans people by advocating for third spaces. Stop trying to get women to budge up.

But clearly trans identified males don't WANT their own spaces/categories, they want women's spaces. Trans identified women may be more comfortable/safer in a separate space, but we hear so little of their needs. It's all about these very demanding men. Fancy that.

I despair as my constituency (Scotland), is going to be either SNP or Labour and anything else is a wasted vote. Its going to have to be Labour with my nose held.

Jesus Christ. The WOMEN need to move. This is the equivalent of "don't look at his erect penis then" in the Wi spa incident.
Are there really people this drunk on the Kool aid?

I actually appreciate him saying he wants to treat everyone with dignity and respect. That I like about him. I think I actually believe him on that. What I can’t get past is that he can’t guarantee women’s safety in spite of this.

I agree, I think we need to be careful not to demonise Starmer. It's all too easy to rule him out because of this issue without seeing his potential in all areas. I hope (and hope is all we can have at this time, because he's never been tested as PM) that he will deliver more good for the country than if we allow Tories to continue the 14 years of damage they've already done.

I see him as someone who will probably have to change his perspective, through the pressure of public opinion, through people like MN-Jane. Just because someone changes their mind, doesn't have to be a bad thing. The trans debate and lobby is a very new phenomenon globally, government policy and legislation on which it's based is only just beginning to be formed and matured.

it does seem like Hobsons Choice, no party will give us everything, and I'm not convinced that the past 14 years under Tory government has shifted the dial on women's rights, particular when you think that women are having to turn their backs on promising careers because of extortionate child care costs. How is that good for Women's Rights in the workplace.

Apparently so

I hadn't noticed that. He didn't just clench until his knuckles went white - he even punched down hard with his fist 😮

Where's Judy James when you need her.. that was one very angry man.

I hadn't noticed that ether! He was really angry.

They felt uncomfortable because they were being sexually harassed in the women's changing rooms. That could not have happened at all until the NHS trust decided a man's feelings were more important than women's safety.

How many spaces do you want women to remove themselves from to pander to men?

I didn't want to shout at him at all. I was very nervous and when the bbc phoned me they had to convince me to even go on the radio. I thought they'd put my question to him.

I became angry as he did not answer the question I asked.

It’s likely going to be a change from Conservative to Labour in my area, I expect a landslide for the latter. I’m not going to vote Labour just because it’s inevitable though. I may have to hold my nose in the other direction even if it makes little difference. I despise what the Labour Party are doing, and how they’re forcing women like me to choose between a rock and a hard place in terms of long held personal values. The little solace I take is no longer living where I did in Wales and having an issue voting between Labour, a Tory MP who was a Boris arsekisser or fucking Plaid who are worse than Labour on this issue.

I actually appreciate him saying he wants to treat everyone with dignity and respect. That I like about him. I think I actually believe him on that. What I can’t get past is that he can’t guarantee women’s safety in spite of this.

Doesn't that make it clear he's lying in the first statement?

Because of course he could guarantee women's safety if he wanted to. All he has to do is guarantee women's sex segregated spaces. But he consistently and repeatedly fails to do that.

So ultimately you want to believe him I think. There is zero evidence that he wants to treat women with dignity and respect on this issue. He wants us to shut up and not cause him any trouble.

What did Sunak say to Brianna’s mum? I must be living under a rock

He was listing kier stamers alleged flip flops, then added

"defining a woman"

Then laughing says

"although that is only 99% of a flip flop"

He said it the week briannas mum was in the chamber - pretty shitty at reading the room at best, at worst just simply vile to get a laugh.

Just realised Jane is on the thread. Well done, that was fabulous. You are being lauded all over Twitter also. 👏👏👏

Nope, I'm still voting Labour, sorry Jane

The week Brianna's mum was in the chamber. What relevance is that?

Usong this tragic story to score some points for the TRAs is disgusting behaviour btw.

He didn't say anything to Brianna's mum. She wasn't there at the time. He was addressing Starmer's ridiculous lack of grasp of biology.

I also noticed he did that with the first caller who said that she had to remortgage her house to pay for private school fees because there was no state school for her son. Something like that anyway.

He answered about appreciating many people work hard and save etc etc but this policy is for all children etc etc. The caller had clearly said it hadn’t been a choice, but the reply was chatbot standard response repeated over and over re this topic. I would have been really frustrated as that caller was extremely articulate about her situation.

Jane, I'm so glad you're here and that I happened to see this message so that I can say a massive thank you and congratulations. It can't have been easy, especially when he kept giving you the rehearsed line about how much he's done for women in the past. I hope you know you had legions of women behind you when you refused to accept the waffle.

I've seen a clip on another interview of KS offering to meet with JK Rowling. Am I alone in finding it bizarre that he offers to meet with a multimillionaire who (AFAIK) has never asked to meet with him, but he hasn't met with Rosie Duffield, Lesbian Labour, Joan Smith and other Labour women? Also, regarding his confidence in the Equality Act, he really should meet with some of the Scottish women who've researched the conflicts at length. I'm thinking here of MurrayBlackburnMackenzie policy collective who've done so much to gather, collate and analyse the evidence base, and For Women Scotland who'll be in the Supreme Court in November seeking clarity regarding legal definitions, following conflicting judicial review outcomes.

But going back to you, Jane, all credit for your tenacity and courage, and for channeling your anger.

if you think things are bad now,
just wait till we've had a year of Keir

I didn't want to shout at him at all. I was very nervous and when the bbc phoned me they had to convince me to even go on the radio. I thought they'd put my question to him

That's wasn't how it came across at times, he did infact try to answer (and rightly so on 1 or 2 occasions you called him out - we don't care about the past the future matters).

I became angry as he did not answer the question I asked

He did say when you asked him can you say you will protect biological women spaces, yes, then was cut off again when he went further. Even Nicky asked you to stop and let him speak, I understand its an emotive subject and you wanted to get out all your views and questions, it just felt like you weren't there for his response and you had already made your mind up about what his views were before he even spoke.

I've seen a clip on another interview of KS offering to meet with JK Rowling. Am I alone in finding it bizarre that he offers to meet with a multimillionaire who (AFAIK) has never asked to meet with him, but he hasn't met with Rosie Duffield, Lesbian Labour, Joan Smith and other Labour women? Also, regarding his confidence in the Equality Act, he really should meet with some of the Scottish women who've researched the conflicts at length. I'm thinking here of MurrayBlackburnMackenzie policy collective who've done so much to gather, collate and analyse the evidence base, and For Women Scotland who'll be in the Supreme Court in November seeking clarity regarding legal definitions, following conflicting judicial review outcomes.

Great point.