To let you all know :Jane the mntter held keir to acct, brilliantly on radio today and it's viral.

[JaneVapeman]

Unfortunately I can't link to her clip, but she's a star and a hero. She pinned him down and cut through the "twaddle". I am a swing voter and would have been proud of a mntter holding any mp to account on an important issue like Jane did. Jane is/was even trending on twitter.

💥

Ok sunak.
Not a great amount of questions but one on maternity in 2016
https://members.parliament.uk/member/4483/writtenquestions

Might do ed Davey's next

Being transgender is a type of human diversity. It is as natural and universal as sexual diversity, racial diversity and so forth. Trans people have existed across all cultures , throughout all of human history.

So what? What’s your point? All sorts of groups “have existed across all cultures, throughout all of human history“. What’s it got to do with women’s rights to single sex services? All males should be excluded from women’s single sex services irregardless of what other group they belong to.

Hating trans people has nothing to do with women’s rights. Over and out.

Don’t whine at women campaigning for their rights. Tell Kier. Ask him why every single time women ask for their rights to single sex services to be protected in law he witters about trans identified men. It’s not women doing that, it’s Kier. He is incapable of answering a question about women without framing it in the context of trans identified men. Tell him to stop doing it if you don’t like it.

No he was being rude. If I ask a question I expect an answer. That was the whole point of him being on the radio. I had a finite amount of time to get an answer and wasn't going to listen to him run the clock down and not provide an answer.

The people moaning at you were very happy for Keir to run the clock down and not have to deal with inconvenient issues.

Did you see this at the bottom of the page? What has Rachel Reeves being female got to do with toilets or more specifically urinals? Removing the urinal because the Chancellor is female suggests that no one believes women have penises which, as we all know, is very transphobic.

archive.ph/2024.06.29-121611/www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/06/29/treasury-lav-may-get-makeover-for-first-female-chancellor/

*to stop standing in judgement of who they are.

Believing something that isn’t true and is materially impossible is being in the grip of a delusion.
No judgement, just an observation.

Some people are going to get a shock when they find out what autogynaephilia is.

Some people (no one specifically here) know full well but it doesn't suit their agenda to acknowledge its existence.

It's an eye opener alright

All they need from you is for you to stop standing in judgement of their experience, and just let them be

I'm not "standing in judgement of their experience". I just don't believe in their, or your, ideology. And their freedom to swing their arms ends where my nose begins so...

So you think transmen should be sectioned and locked up.

That's quite the most bad faith interpretation on the thread @wombat15 - well done!

DONE, past tense. Jane was asking about his plans for the future. It's not unreasonable to expect him to answer the question he's been asked

But people have agreed on that instance, it was fine to bring him back to point on that occasion but it was just the repeated interrupting that people some women found really unnecessary and ineffective. As did the host. No one is "castigating" Jane, when I watched the clip uploaded on here, she did sound a bit ranty and closed off to him talking.
It's not an idea that women are supposed to accept him not answering questions, or avoiding them, it's just that we can also say when we think eachother handled something how we wouldn't.

Some call it brave to ring up and challenge him like that, I'm not sure it is brave to anonymously speak to someone about a subject you are passionate about and want change for. Wasn't it just that she got through and was asked to speak. She told him what she wanted to him to say - he is not going to parrot it back to her, but when he started to talk got spoken over and interrupted.

Yes, It certainly isn't a joke like "man walks into a bar"- its peoples lives.

I agree every person deserves to be treated with dignity and respect, it's nice to hear a person in the running to acknowledge that.

No-one said that, as you've helpfully pointed out by the quote function. 😂

We really need to have an award per thread on 'most in bad faith jump to the ridiculous' with special points awarded when using quotes so everyone can see just how disingenuous it is.

Runningupthecurtains
As a society we don't allow people who are suffering terminal illness to end their own life if they can't do so unassisted. We section people who are a danger to themselves. We restrict access to substances deemed harmful
If someone believes themselves to be Queen Elizabeth the second we don't arrange unfettered access to Windsor Castle for them, we treat them to try to get them to realise they are mistaken in their belief.
Or in short we try to prevent people harming themselves.
Unless they do it in the name of trans.

Fabulous, we will just get our wonderfully funded mental health, CAHMS teams straight in to that ...............oh wait !!!!!!

I agree every person deserves to be treated with dignity and respect, it's nice to hear a person in the running to acknowledge that.

What about the women ...

In prisons, rape counselling, domestic violence shelters, needing single sex care.

Where is the dignity and respect for them? Why can Starmer not say 'of course your need for single sex spaces will be respected?'

Question to the trans rights supporters on this thread:

Can you justify why I should believe that males are women? What's your rationale?

Maybe the bad faith takes are what happens when you're groomed as a child to believe everyone is out to get you regardless of what they actually say or do and reality.

It must be miserable to live like that.

I think AGPs deserve caution. Not respect.

So you think transmen should be sectioned and locked up.

That’s a reach. Following that logic, anyone who has self-harmed should be sectioned and locked up. But we don’t do that, certainly not at first. We try to find why they do such a thing, we attempt to persuade them not to do it, we remove things that trigger the urge to do it and we help them to get better, or at least manage the issue with a minimum of harm.

I can never quite tell if ...

a) people genuinely believe that men who say they're women deserve more rights than anyone else

or

b) people get a bit bamboozled by the 'be kind' narrative and corner themselves into arguments against the rights of vulnerable women that they don't really believe

I tend to go for the benefit of the diy t mostly and choose B. However some names have been around far too long for that to hold, so they're clearly A

It sounded like they thought that when they said that we section people who are a danger to themselves so I was asking if that is what they meant. If it wasn't why mention it?

You may have spoken to people who identify as trans but I seriously doubt you have ever spoken at length to a person with gender dysphoria.

A concerning amount of transwomen like to post selfies of themselves in bad wigs and sheer underwear with their penises proudly on display.

Someone with gender dysphoria would rather mutilate their own genitals than put them on public display. They are not the least bit confused about the reality of biological sex, it's a great source of distress for them.

The problem with performative kindness is that it is rarely built on a foundation of genuine empathy and compassion and that's how we end up with people cheer leading for men cos playing as IG models at the expense of women, children and those with gender dysphoria.

13% of Labour supporters think a woman can have a penis.

What a time to be alive, as they say.