To let you all know :Jane the mntter held keir to acct, brilliantly on radio today and it's viral.

[JaneVapeman]

Unfortunately I can't link to her clip, but she's a star and a hero. She pinned him down and cut through the "twaddle". I am a swing voter and would have been proud of a mntter holding any mp to account on an important issue like Jane did. Jane is/was even trending on twitter.

💥

I have read your explanation, thank you. It did appear to be an attempt to do so, to up the anti Labour sentiment. My apologies if I got that wrong.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/03/17/hospital-told-police-patient-not-raped-alleged-attacker-transgender/

There you go

https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/politics/hospital-says-patient-could-not-26506744

woman raped on female ward, hospital denied it happened because there were no men on the ward

"There seems to be nothing protecting women's rights to them"

Many transgender people are now, and always have been, using the biological sex spaces that they feel are appropriate to them.

You want legislation to criminalise this tiny group of people in order to provide a powerful disincentive to them to continue to use these spaces. And of course you want this legislation policed in such a way that the law is a meaningful disincentive to transwomen.

So it's not good enough just to talk about legislation.

You need to talk about enforcement and policing. In a realistic way.

Otherwise surely it won't make an meaningful material difference to women's safety.

Are any GC's on this thread willing to talk about how they think legislation intended to criminalise transgender women in women's spaces can be enforced?

I was going to request an apology for @izimbra rudeness, but I see the post has been deleted

@izimbra
What makes this argument different from the 'all immigration from South Asia should be stopped because of crimes by Asian grooming gangs' stance of the many of the far right?
What makes it different is that no one is arguing that men from South Asia should bypass normal safeguarding and use women's spaces.

Are any GC's on this thread willing to talk about how they think legislation intended to criminalise transgender women in women's spaces can be enforced?
Legislation such as that proposed by the Conservatives amends the equality act make service providers more confident to offer single sex spaces. It doesn't criminalise anyone.

As a reminder, men are generally much bigger and stronger than women

it is also the case that the advice given to men who want to transition by doctors was to use women’s spaces as part of their “journey”

of course no one fucking asked women if we were ok with men doing this because we’re just support humans

would i confront a 6ft TW in a changing room or toilet or a support group and tell them to get out? Of course not because I’m a lot bloody smaller and less aggressive than the average man

TW have never bloody sought out permission, they just took what they wanted cos men!!!

You want legislation to criminalise this tiny group of people in order to provide a powerful disincentive to them to continue to use these spaces. And of course you want this legislation policed in such a way that the law is a meaningful disincentive to transwomen.

We want legislation that doesn’t make it easy for any man who wants to to obtain a GRC and access female spaces. This would protect both women and transwomen.
Transactivists and the political establishment have actually made the lives of people we used to call transsexuals (and who never “passed”, however much they thought they did) far more difficult - Stonewall being the main culprit, as it put just about everyone under the “trans” umbrella, including some very dodgy people.

This isn't true. Lots of people will see 'spoilt' ballots, including the candidates, everyone has to see it and agree its not a vote, its not just down to one counting agent to decide. In close run seats, individual spoilt ballets can be argued about for days.They may not care what you have written, but that's a different matter.

That story is bizarre and tbh - suspect.

According to the police - "The legal definition of rape is when someone puts their penis in another person's vagina, anus or mouth, without the person's permission." If you haven't got a penis you can't be convicted of rape, but that doesn't mean you won't be convicted of a violent sexual offence that carries a long prison sentence.

I notice that the quality of media you GC's use as evidence for your views that transgender people are dangerous degenerates does then to be papers with a history of trashy, far right, culture war content. The Daily Mail, the Express, the Daily Express, the Telegraph. Don't you have any standards at all when it comes to reporting, or will you repost any article that a ten second google throws up tha you think supports your argument against transgender rights?

There's nothing 'trashy' about the telegraph. Don't be ridiculous.

"This isn't true. Lots of people will see 'spoilt' ballots, including the candidates"

You think the Labour candidates will be handed a pile of ballots with comments by GC on them?

And they'll be chastened by them?

😂

GC's live in a fantasy world. While constantly going on about transgender people being disengaged from reality.

🤪 Whatever - as the police have confirmed it happened you believe what you like

what rights is it again the transgender ppl don’t have?

@TheKeatingFive

"There's nothing 'trashy' about the telegraph. Don't be ridiculous."

Are you joking?

The Telegraph is a platform for right wing culture war BS.

Nonsense.

So you refused to believe the story and given evidence you are trying to trash the evidence.

We all see what you're at. It's gross. This poor women deserves a lit better than the hospital and now you trying to undermine an appalling thing that happened to her.

Wow a woman was raped whilst in hospital and the hospital lied about there being no men on the ward and you're more concerned about which publication reported it?

The rape occured, it was committed by a person with a penis aka a man.

Many transgender people are now, and always have been, using the biological sex spaces that they feel are appropriate to them.

Without the explicit consent of the women in those spaces, women were as per usual never asked if they agreed, and equally without any care or consideration for the women in those spaces feelings, as per all about the men's feelings.

You want legislation to criminalise this tiny group of people in order to provide a powerful disincentive to them to continue to use these spaces. And of course you want this legislation policed in such a way that the law is a meaningful disincentive to transwomen.

It is not a 'tiny' group of people, it is any man who says he is a woman, there are no restrictions. Even if it was only those who have GRC's that are allowed (and they should not be) there is no way to determine whether the man entering has one or not, it would have to be taken on trust and look where that has led.

In my opinion yes it should be a criminal offence, it would empower women to challenge and report and the person entering where they shouldn't would face the consequences. It has been proven that trust just doesn't cut it.

I would also have consequences for the providers of the facilities, they should provide single sex spaces and an extra space for those who require it. Failure to do so and failure to enforce it should not be consequence free.

It appears the only way to 'disincentivise' men from entering women's spaces is to have such measures because as has been proven time and time again they just ignore and ride roughshod over women's needs, feelings and concerns prioritising only their wants.

So it's not good enough just to talk about legislation.

You need to talk about enforcement and policing. In a realistic way.

Otherwise surely it won't make an meaningful material difference to women's safety.

Are any GC's on this thread willing to talk about how they think legislation intended to criminalise transgender women in women's spaces can be enforced?

So there you go, I've talked about it.

what rights is it again the transgender ppl don’t have?

In fact they have more rights. They have the right to falsify information on their birth cert. None of the rest of us have that right.

According to the police - "The legal definition of rape is when someone puts their penis in another person's vagina, anus or mouth, without the person's permission." If you haven't got a penis you can't be convicted of rape, but that doesn't mean you won't be convicted of a violent sexual offence that carries a long prison sentence.

And this transwoman had a penis, as do between 80% and 90% of self-identified transwomen.

So it was rape, as the hospital eventually admitted, and the police investigated the crime as one of rape.

"what rights is it again the transgender ppl don’t have?"

I'm not asking for legislative change that criminalises transgender women for using female spaces. You are.

Transwomen are men, it's not discriminatory to treat them as such when it comes to single sex spaces.

no we’d just like men whatever they’re wearing to stay the fuck out of our spaces

decent men whatever they’re wearing would understand and stay out

"And this transwoman had a penis, as do between 80% and 90% of self-identified transwomen.

So it was rape, as the hospital eventually admitted, and the police investigated the crime as one of rape."

Whether a crime took place is something for the police are obliged to investigate.

It's not really the business of the hospital to say a crime did or didn't take place - regardless of whether it involved or didn't involve a transgender person.

Which is why I think the whole news report is trash.

I'm not asking for legislative change that criminalises transgender women for using female spaces. You are.

Yes, I am. They should never have assumed that right in the first place, it should never have been suggested that they do so.