To let you all know :Jane the mntter held keir to acct, brilliantly on radio today and it's viral.

[JaneVapeman]

Unfortunately I can't link to her clip, but she's a star and a hero. She pinned him down and cut through the "twaddle". I am a swing voter and would have been proud of a mntter holding any mp to account on an important issue like Jane did. Jane is/was even trending on twitter.

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I know, I read your reply. It still doesn't explain why women discussing a Labour policy they disagree with bothers you so much.

But you're the one who claimed the thread was an attempt to stop people voting Labour. It isn't - its a thread about the issue, and Labour's position on it.

We all have the right to discuss this without being accused of having an ulterior motive.

I think the rise of misogyny is a massive issue - attacks on our reproductive rights, the refusal to recognise biological sex, allowing any man to announce he's a women and enter toilets, changing rooms, rape crisis centre's, women's jails, compete against biological women in sports, take women's scholarships - it matters to me. Our rights are disappearing before our eyes and Labour is a big part of that. The Tories have been very clear on the issue. Starmer is trying to fudge it to avoid upsetting either the TRA's or the Terfs. He needs to be clear so everyone knows what they are voting for.

Because women are socially and possibly biologically conditioned to put other needs before their own.

This is the time to be selfish women.

So so so disappointing. Did my postal vote yesterday and nearly cried. I so wanted to vote Labour but couldn’t do it. KS is such a disappointment. He treats us like fools.

Literally, anything other than a valid vote (a clear mark for a single candidate) counts as a spoilt ballot and will be recorded in the spoilt ballot tally. You don't have to write or draw anything on the paper (although many people do); it is sufficient to leave the entire paper blank (which is also common for spoilt ballots). Some voters think that spoilt ballots are a good opportunity for crude expression; idk who they think sees this stuff - it's mostly middle-aged women and older people who do the counts.

Please go ahead and spoil your ballot (nicely) if you don't want to vote for a candidate. I would like to see "no thank you" or cute cat drawings this time. The "big" elections have more candidates on the ballot papers so people feel they have more room to write/draw srsly questionable stuff. The "small" elections are nicer because the ballot papers are too small to scribble much on them.

He's about to lead Labour to a historic landslide victory over the Tories from a position of absolute ridicule under corbyn.

Id say he's done very well.

I’m tired of women being told to shut up, move over, be kind and put others first.

I'm a swing voter whose voted Labour more than anything else.
I want change, change is essential to democracy no party should just go on and on. Everyone gets fatigue. I like policies from all the parties.

I like other Labour policies.

My thread is totally highlight Jane the amazing mumsnetter who is the only person questioning starmer on this issue who unveiled him.

'If you want my X, support my Sex' is the best way to spoil your ballet if that's the issue for you.
My understanding is that it will be recorded.

It seems to bother some people that I disagree with them.
I have never once been critical of another poster.
For about the 4th time: I believe in democracy and freedom of speech.
I was going on Reclaim the Night marches before there was even Thatcherism. I know how radical and unpopular it was being a feminist back then.
Women's rights are paramount, it's clear that folks disagree about how they can be achieved. Each to their own.

Frankly as a mother of teenage daughters, I'd rather a dick in a changing room (that we have now under the Tories) than essentially, rape being decriminalised (that we have now under the Tories).
Each to our own though.

The only person to see it will be the person who counts the ballots, and they don't give a crap, it'll go into a pile with all the others that have a cock and balls drawn on them/people who've arsed their ballot paper up accidentally. Nobody is logging your comments to feed back to Starmer.

(by the way - this is according to someone who actually does this work who made a similar comment about spoiling their ballot on another mumnset thread)

It seems to bother some people that I disagree with them.

No. It was your assertion that we were 'putting people off' voting Labour.

If what we're doing is clarifying their position on a particular issue - it's not our fault if that puts people off, now is it? It's labours fault for the policy in the first place.

Well what about the dick in the changing rooms, that results in rape, that's then denied because everyone in the changing room was a 'legal woman'.

An equivalent incident has already taken place in the NHS. Under Tory rules, but under Labour policy I expect we'll see more of this.

"Women's rights are paramount"

If you've spent more time and energy raging about the rights of 50K transgender women to carry on using the same women's spaces they've been using decades without most of us ever noticing, than you have about the impact of austerity and cuts to the criminal justice system on the health, wellbeing, safety and life expectancy of millions of women in the UK since 2010, then you've been completely radicalised by the GC movement, and have zero sense of perspective.

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@EmpressOfTheThread you implied I started the thread to turn people against starmer. See my explanation

Women's rights are paramount, it's clear that folks disagree about how they can be achieved. Each to their own.

Women's rights cease to be if you include men in the definition of women.

I've listened to it. My perception is that he'd hardly begun to answer before you began to shout over him. I think you were rude.

I think this is the judgement that’s currently being appealed, as mentioned by a pp. It’s all as clear as mud.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-63956604

My perception however doesn't mean that I felt you didn't have the right to ask your very clear question. I just don't feel that you came across well once you'd asked it.

With all due respect. You have no idea what I have done.
Once again, it gets personal.

This is a good thread for anyone trying to understand the complexity of all this. Basically the law is extremely unclear and the case above is very important in establishing a president here.

x.com/michaelpforan/status/1805570786448576928?s=46&t=OKyRO4eweTteo5FEt_J1MQ

Here's the case, read for yourself

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/03/17/h