To let you all know :Jane the mntter held keir to acct, brilliantly on radio today and it's viral.

[JaneVapeman]

Unfortunately I can't link to her clip, but she's a star and a hero. She pinned him down and cut through the "twaddle". I am a swing voter and would have been proud of a mntter holding any mp to account on an important issue like Jane did. Jane is/was even trending on twitter.

💥

This!! Every time, every single one

And why we have locks on bathroom doors and curtains at our windows. But the PP doesn't recognise the concept of privacy.

That's a great idea

I agree also.

Starmer said it wasn’t right to say only women have a cervix, which might have meant not legally correct, but also implied that to say so was unacceptable. For a top class legal brain, he’s either poor at choosing his words, or deliberately fudging their meaning.

I hear Labour politicians saying they’re not complacent and are fighting for every vote. So why are they wilfully throwing so many away? Were it not for this, I’d vote Labour (did so in 2019 on the basis of one standout good policy, previously Liberal/LibDem for decades). Luckily for me I have an acceptable other to vote for (not one of the traditional parties, or Reform).

She would have known she had very little time, other callers were hurried along. I think it was completely reasonable to interrupt yet another tangent of his, deliberately trying to avoid having to answer the question.

But you really need to LISTEN to what he's been saying on this issue. He's consistently and repeatedly failed to give any reassurance that he will protect single sex spaces.

Obviously single sex spaces are the crux of this thread, but pretty much every policy he’s put out has been of the same vein. Big ideas but little explanation to what his process is going to be. Everything he declares on his Facebook page I find myself saying ‘how? How are you going to implement that particular policy? Show your damn work’. It genuinely feels Labour have taken a page out of the Trump handbook - talk loudly in repeals phrases to get everyone riled up and hope no one sees they’re just wind em up words.

Don't be daft. He's had many chances to explain his position. He would have done what he always does.

Waffle...DPP...VAWG...deflect... safe spaces...respect... some of the most vulnerable...toxic culture war etc etc.

And for those who didn't listen to it live, Jane had very little time. She came on at about 9.45 and we'd already been told he had to leave at 9.50. He'd have just run the clock down with his waffle about his time as DPP.

@jeaux90.

Vulnerable women, absolutely.

Think of the havoc Jimmy Saville wreaked.

For a top class legal brain, he’s either poor at choosing his words, or deliberately fudging their meaning.

@borntobequiet There is way too much of that going on on this subject. People seem to think that if the meaning of words doesn't suit them they can just bend them to mean whatever they want. It makes discussion difficult (intentionally so) so it's particularly awful to hear the future PM doing it.

The second one, which is why I don't trust him and I don't think he has integrity.

It wasn't down to her to put the case. This was supposed to be a chance to ask KS to clarify his position, not an opportunity to argue. And Jane got him to do that. Politicians are very adept at, and trained in, swerving, obfuscation and soundbites. Jane held him to account and refused to let him dodge. That that can be seen as rude is because the training in the 'swerve' relies on people wanting to be nice and waiting their turn while the clock runs down on their chance to contribute and the politician uses their question as a chance to make a political point in an area that they want to win. Brilliantly handled Jane!!

Nicky also corrected him at one point, well done him for letting her run and pin him down. Nice to see a man supporting us.

This may have been mentioned before but in case it hasn't been...

On the TV debate with Rishi he kept saying that in his former legal role, he'd supported women accessing refuges after domestic violence.

That's all very well.

BUT I'm not hearing what I want from him about any man, in the process of gender change, being able to identify as a woman and walk into women's toilets or changing rooms. It's too open to misuse (and abuse.)

I have no faith at all in the 'certificate' they will produce and expect the whole thing to be a mighty cock up (pun intended.)

His whole approach is to make life easier for the tiny, tiny number of men who go through surgery as part of transition, and he doesn't give a bollocks about biological women. His opinion seems to be 'Let's all be nice to each other and just rub along.'

I also DREAD to think what will happen in schools with Labour's approach to this.

But they have been in government and here we are..so why will it get better?

Jane was amazing great to see Keir held to account!

Legend!

His whole approach is to make life easier for the tiny, tiny number of men who go through surgery as part of transition, and he doesn't give a bollocks about biological women.

But even now men don't have to go through surgery as part of transition in order to get a GRC.

"Apply for a Gender Recognition Certificate
...
You can apply even if you have not had any gender affirming surgery or treatments, or you do not plan to have any."
https://www.gov.uk/apply-gender-recognition-certificate/who-can-apply

They certainly won't have to once Labour have put into effect their plans to "simplify" the process of obtaining a GRC.

Lots of women have different opinions to me, that's great and as it should be.

What I raise an eyebrow to: people who say they are women scolding an ordinary woman querying the Labour Leader's fudged position wrt Safeguarding for Biological Women and Girls.

Hth.

edited for typo

That’s the case literally every time a government is voted out of power. Changing the government is a big thing, which nearly always requires significant numbers to change how they voted last time, so it only happens when the government is seen as failing.

Oh sweet summer child.
The Canadian cyclist who's name is I think veronica ivy has stated on TV he is biological and is obviously a woman cos his passport says it, therefore he is a biological woman.

Add that after kier said of course I'll protect biological womens spaces (note not single sex) he then said "but" theres no way a but means anything except allowing men in. If you wanted to protect any space, you say, I'll protect X space.
You dont add qualifiers like but after.

I am even more concerned about Labour being in power now than I was before. Keir uses very carefully chosen words that both sides of the argument think relate to them.

I had a manager like this once. It made any conflict in the team even worse than it was before because colleagues would come to him to help resolve an issue, the manager would sit so perfectly on the fence using these carefully chosen or similar words that both parties would think he agreed with them and then the colleagues would ending up being in more conflict and confused than they were before.

It was only after two colleagues had the manager put his words in writing did they realise what he was doing. They resolved their issues eventually.... after the manager left and the new Director set things out transparently.

Thing are going to get worse before they get better.

Because Labour policy will make it (much) easier to get a GRC. A GRC changes your 'legal sex' and so gives men access to women's spaces.

Currently this is a two year process with sign off from a medical board. Labour will make it more or less immediate following a consultation with just 1 GP.

Labour continue to waffle on about how women are protected by the provisions in equality act, but refuse to clarify how this protection can be enforced when any man who wants one will have access to a certificate that says he's 'legally female'.

Thing are going to get worse before they get better.

Absolutely this. Buckle up.

His whole approach is to make life easier for the tiny, tiny number of men who go through surgery as part of transition, and he doesn't give a bollocks about biological women.

Sorry just to reiterate that this is nonnsense. Zero surgery or hormonal treatment are required to qualify for a GRC. All the man has to do is say he 'feels like' a woman.

Something like 95% of transwomen retain their genitalia. And they are now going to be able to get hold of a certificate with very little effort - that declares them to be 'legally female'.

Currently this is a two year process with sign off from a medical board. Labour will make it more or less immediate following a consultation with just 1 GP.

Not even one GP - a single specialist doctor giving a diagnosis of gender dysphoria.

I wonder who those doctors will be. And how often they will refuse to provide the desired diagnosis.