To end friendship over holiday?

[mycongratations]

Last weekend I went to Milan with a friend, got there early afternoon Friday to leave Sunday morning.

All started off great. We’d got taxis on the Friday which had ended up being expensive and then I realised there was a metro. I said to her oh just wait here whilst I take a photo of this metro name/number so I can figure out the stops/line we need and she just wandered off. Obviously I did it at both ends (main square and hotel) and both times she just kept walking when I knew she’d heard me.

After I figured out what line we needed we used the metro and she exclaimed “why don’t we just do this yesterday?!”. Like it was my fault when she did absolutely nothing to help figure it out.

The hotel had a mini spa and I booked us in for an hour as it was part of our booking but she kept ranting about how much they were going to charge us. Even though I repeatedly said it’s free but if they do I’ll pay for the spa because I booked it and it would be my mistake. Still not good enough and she kept ranting. When they didn’t charge us she said nothing.

On the Saturday afternoon when I asked her what she wanted to do “I’m not bothered” so I said let’s get Aperol Spritz on the balcony which overlooks the cathedral - my treat. “No I don’t want to do that”.

I tried to remain positive and cheery knowing she was in a mood and just not giving it attention and thinking she’ll bring herself out of it. The Sunday morning was horrible, there was so much tension I didn’t dare speak. I offered to get us a taxi to the bus that goes to the airport (I have a knee injury and it had been fine but by the Sunday it was painful) and she said no we’ll walk, then she looked at me and said really aggressively “well I can tell by your face you don’t want to”

Thankfully on the plane we were sat at opposite ends. But this meant we boarded at different ends, so I said wait for me near these stairs or I’ll wait for you - as neither of us will know if the other one has got off yet. As I was walking from the back stairs after landing I immediately saw her just walking off with no intention of waiting for me - we drove in my car so we were not parting ways at the airport.

I genuinely don’t think I did anything wrong on the trip, not saying I’m perfect but there was no one big thing that I can pinpoint as to why she’d behave so miserably - the entire trip was her idea.

Yes dont go with her again. It can be hard work going away with others op.

Sounds like the experience my DD had with her oldest friend a couple of years ago. They were only 19 and went to Rome. My DD organised everything, drove to airport, collected friend etc who just moaned and got really picky about everything. My DD couldn’t understand it at all. They haven’t been close at all since.

And this is why I ignored the grump because I thought it can’t last long. Yeah only a good 70% of the trip.

She lives at home with her dad and stepmum.

I hope you never gave her a lift home after all of that she sounds miserable you should of said something.

when you say she wouldn't pick a restaurant op, what do you mean?

I wouldn’t necessarily say it’s out of character, but I’ve never known it to be so extreme before.

We’ve been friends for years and I guess I cling on to the history and that when I had a bad breakup she was the only person who turned up at my house randomly with cupcakes and listened to me cry and moan.

Then I think about how for a few days after her birthday I’d got her a cake and cooked her favourite dinner and she cancelled on me with no explanation. How she threw a party and said she forgot to invite me, I only knew about it because she told me about it afterwards. How she borrowed brand new shoes, refused to give them back and then after a year gave them back absolutely ditched. How we’d go out for dinner and she’d ask me “so what are doing tonight?” … having dinner with you? Like I was just the interim before her real plans. How she cancelled on our non refundable spa day, when she hadn’t paid, said she’d still pay and to take someone else. I took the someone else and she said well you should have got the money off them. I could go on.

Just that I would suggest somewhere and I’d get a “yeah can do” or “yeah up to you”

Like no. It’s not up to me, it’s a joint decision. If you don’t like where I’ve picked then ok, but you aren’t suggesting alternatives.

I went on holiday with a friend, it was out of season so not a huge amount to do.
She’s a person who hates being bored.
We sat one night in the hotel bar, it was quiet but a couple of groups of people sat around.
Friend picked up a cardboard bar mat and suddenly lit it over the candle on the table.
I said ‘what the hell are you doing, put that out.’
I had visions of us being in a foreign prison on arson charges.
I’ve never been on holiday with her since.

After your update about other things your friend has done, I'd have to say end the friendship. She sounds awful and I can't really understand why you did go away with her if that's what she's like. I think you're a better friend to her than she is to you. Seems like she just enjoys putting you in your place as she sees herself as superior to you.

So her behaviour is absolutely in character? In which case the question is why on earth you’ve remained friends with someone chronically rude and badly behaved?

Then I think about how for a few days after her birthday I’d got her a cake and cooked her favourite dinner and she cancelled on me with no explanation. How she threw a party and said she forgot to invite me, I only knew about it because she told me about it afterwards. How she borrowed brand new shoes, refused to give them back and then after a year gave them back absolutely ditched. How we’d go out for dinner and she’d ask me “so what are doing tonight?” … having dinner with you? Like I was just the interim before her real plans. How she cancelled on our non refundable spa day, when she hadn’t paid, said she’d still pay and to take someone else. I took the someone else and she said well you should have got the money off them. I could go on

Good grief - dump this selfish twat. Her being there for you once doesnt cancel out all this self centred manipulative crap.

She's a massive arsehole and you're better off without "friends" like this. Wow.

Wow OP your update is shocking - she’s not a friend AT ALL. She’s a selfish entitled arsehole

Please don’t give this person another minute of your time. She is horrible

I would be giving it to her with both barrels.
Nobody wants to be friends with such a tight fisted grumpy bitch.

Waiting for someone to suggest maybe she has early onset dementia or some rare foot condition that causes her to need lots of shoes 😆

She's literally horrific - please dont stay friends with her OP. She's toxic.

I think your issue may be similar to this one OP.

When one person organises everything, books everything, decides everything in advance without consulting the other person, it can get really grating, I mean this kindly but you seem quite bossy op, you probably think you're just organised but that can come across as you being 'in charge' when you're away together, coupled with her being negative anyway it is a bit of a recipe for disaster.

From what you've said to her and what you've said about her is that you don't trust her to make decisions so instead you either decide and tell her what's happening or you give her options to choose from instead, it is quite infantilising and can prompt some people to revert to a petulant type of attitude because they aren't being treated like an adult. Almost like they are being treated like a child so they act like one. She may have thought she'd have more autonomy when it came to the holiday but as it happens you'd already decided what you were doing and when.

She should have told you that you were doing her head in, but maybe, ironically, she didn't want to ruin the holiday, and you ignoring it and pretending everything's okay didn't bring it to a head so you both just bumbled through it instead.

wait here
telling her to wait for you while you wanted to go off and sort something out, it's like dealing with a child not an adult capable of making decisions themselves.

… when if it was down to her it would never have been figured out.
referring to getting taxis instead of the metro and her response of why didn't we do this yesterday, this shows how you feel about her capabilities as an equal.

I booked us in for an hour (at the spa)
Again, just went ahead and booked it, she kicked off after you told her it was booked.

Which for reference she wouldn’t pick a place
Which actually means as you've clarified that you were only giving her options and she wouldn't pick one of your choices.

Thats why I also suggested me buying her a drink, there are so many different Aperol Spritz on the menu and the bar for anyone who doesn’t know has a balcony above the square overlooking the cathedral. You have to queue to get a seat but it’s not like we had to be somewhere. And she just wasn’t bothered.
Again, something you wanted to do, not her.

she said no we’ll walk, then she looked at me and said really aggressively “well I can tell by your face you don’t want to”
This is quite telling, after everything that's happened she wanted to do it a certain way (to save money) but you wanted it your way, you had good reason, but it sounds like a long line of doing things that you wanted, she'd had enough at this point.

I said 'wait for me near these stairs'
again, you telling her what to do instead of asking her.

You're actually complaining and being frustrated that she didn't just do as she was told half the time, when really you shouldn't have been 'telling' her what to do at all, maybe she thought that when you got there you'd be able to make decisions together about what you wanted to do but it became clear that you wanted to be in charge and she was just expected to traipse around after you for the few days. You're obviously very different people and not holiday compatible.

@sandyhappypeople If you had read the OP's update it would have saved you writing all that out.

She's clearly a dickhead and its not as you describe.

I'd already read it, she has shown herself to be very selfish, so not sure why OP would have expected her to be a bundle of joy/different person on holiday.

What I said still stands though, if you treat someone like an incapable child, don't be surprised when they start acting like one.

@sandyhappypeople that's not how things work. Someone has to make a suggestion about taxis, metros, restaurants, bars etc. If you're so passive you don't have any ideas yourself then you'd better be easily pleased and not a complainer. The OP hasn't given any impression that she wanted to decide everything, just that she was the default person.

If the frenemy was unhappy with the situation she should have been an adult and said something about it rather than sulking and ruining the holiday.

Incidentally OP I know someone like your friend who often says - I don't mind, it's up to you etc but is really controling about getting her way about other things. I think the faux chillness is how they'd like to see themselves rather than how they really are.

What I said still stands though, if you treat someone like an incapable child, don't be surprised when they start acting like one

She didnt. She tried to get her to suggest things to do and be proactive, and she didnt. Therefore, someone has to organise something unless they are just going to sit staring at hotel wall for the entire weekend.

Right just to clear this up. All I booked was the agreed upon flights and I researched hotels, found a great one and checked she was happy with it and price. She also can’t drive, so that’s why we took my car.

Metro. We both saw the signs for it on the Friday. At no point did she take the initiative to Google the lines or work out stops. It’s nothing about capabilities. She just at no point tried to work it out.

Spa. I didn’t just go ahead and book anything. We planned to do a day sightseeing, hotel spa for an hour and go back to the square for dinner. So yes I asked at reception to book. Not sure how this makes me some bossy controlling monster.

Restaurant. We walked by loads of nice restaurants, I’d say “this looks nice”, “maybe here?” and it was met with a dismissive “yeah can do”. She never volunteered any restaurants we walked by. I’d say - do you want to look at the menu here “..no”. Ok but we have to eat, I don’t just want to continue walking around aimlessly. She has the option to suggest too.

Aperol Spritz. I asked her what she wanted to do “I don’t mind”, I made a suggestion of going to a bar which serves her favourite drink with a nice view of Milan. I wasn’t asking a vegan to go on a hunting trip. And we never went anyway.

I’m really unsure of why you’re painting the narrative of me demanding we only do what I want to do. Yes shockingly I wanted dinner, yes I booked a spa we both wanted to go to at the time we agreed, yes I offered to treat her to her favourite drink when she said she didn’t mind what we did.

Taxi. Yes I had subluxated patella, my knee cap slid out and I pushed it back in and lay on the floor in agony and yes my knee can be unsteady now months later. We’d done a lot of walking. I woke up to my knee hurting on Sunday, I didn’t want to carry my bag and walk half an hour. When I made it very clear it’s me who wants to get a taxi so obviously I’ll pay. And we walked anyway because she’d been so aggressive right in my face. Only on MN can you called controlling and bossy because you’re scared an injury will flare up so you offer to pay for a taxi.

Stairs. Yea as we were boarding the plane I hadn’t given it much through before and realised we’d be leaving separately. So yeah I said wait here and I’ll meet you or I’ll already be waiting there. I was giving her a lift home, so it makes it easier if we don’t have to go around searching for each other. If we were leaving together then she was welcome to just go off and suit herself. Maybe I should have given myself that luxury and thought I’m alright jack I’m driving.

You have got this so badly twisted and just being horrible when you know nothing. All I did was book agreed flights and hotel. After that all I did was suggest things, why does it make me bossy when we’re looking for a place for dinner to ask her “maybe here?”, is that not making a decision together? She has free will she could say “I like the look of this place”. She didn’t want to go get a drink so we didn’t get a drink, she didn’t want to get a taxi to the bus stop, so we didn’t get a taxi to the bus stop, I asked her if she wanted to get ice cream on our last night near the hotel, no she didn’t so I went on my own. It seems like you’d rather us have walked around restaurants for hours because one of us isn’t allowed to make a suggestion because it makes us bossy and controlling.

I think u were too nice to her. She knew she could be unpleasant and because u were so busy trying to make the trip a success that u wouldn’t question her behaviour. Also wonder if she is jealous of you?

Are you going to contact her? Personally I would wait for her to contact you and I’d ask if she ok now as she obviously wasn’t when you were away!

First of all, I'm sorry you had a shit weekend break @mycongratations.

I'm finding this thread fascinating because I find so many posts interesting and agree with a lot of diverse views.

I'm very much a bimble about person who ultimately gets things done but would freak out at any kind of itinerary. Similarly, I know that time if of the essence on a city break when you're time short and want to get as much done as possible.

There is no question that your friend was rude, uncooperative and generally an energy vampire but to me this sounds like ND overwhelm. Someone mentioned the same thing earlier in the thread and your most recent post suggests ADHD to me. Don't shoot me! I think it's a possibility and it is neither of your fault. She absolutely owes you an apology regardless but it sounds to me like your friend may be able to mask quite well and then it all unravels when spent in close proximity with no chance of respite (not from you, just everything) and it has made it really difficult for her to regulate her mood.

I wouldn't write her off. If you think there is a chance she may be ND then have a bit of breathing space and then maybe chat about the holiday in a couple of weeks to see what she thought/how she felt and also give you an opportunity to do the same.

It's all too easy to ruminate on every single slight given you're pissed off with her but you liked her enough to go on holiday with her. It's a harsh way of learning that you're probably not ideal travelling companions but this doesn't necessarily have to be a reflection on either of you.

And don't let this put you off Italy! I think you need to rebook immediately to enjoy its magnificence 💞

I wonder if there is a difference in the kinds of trips that you have previously taken? If she has previously been on package holidays (fly, coach, flop) or stayed at relatives’ houses (fly, lift from airport, flop at their house) then the level of ongoing decision-making required for a city break might have come as a shock to her?

But apart from that she sounds very passive, dull and bordering on lazy. Some people are intentionally noncommittal about things because they can’t be bothered to make decisions and it’s actually quite inconsiderate to those around them. They like to be carried along by others but don’t appreciate that they also have a part to play.

@mycongratations Dont worry about that poster, its clear to everyone you did nothing wrong.

You gave your friend plenty of opportunity to suggest things to do and specifically asked her multiple times what SHE wanted to do. You also drove her to and from the airport.

SHE was v selfish not wanting to get a taxi considering your knee injury too. According to that poster, you wouldnt have eaten anything at all the entire weekend because apparently, suggesting a place to eat when she wont suggest anything herself is apparently "infantilising" 🙄😂

Only on MN can you called controlling and bossy because you’re scared an injury will flare up so you offer to pay for a taxi.

Not sure how this makes me some bossy controlling monster.

I’m really unsure of why you’re painting the narrative of me demanding we only do what I want to do.

You have got this so badly twisted and just being horrible when you know nothing.

It seems like you’d rather us have walked around restaurants for hours because one of us isn’t allowed to make a suggestion because it makes us bossy and controlling.

I've not said any of those things, or being horrible, you're taking what I've actually said and blown it out of proportion with your comments above. I think you're just different personalities, you're talking about her like she isn't capable of making any sort of decisions so you've had to do it all, so you tell her what you're doing and you suggest things and you decide and you tell her to wait and where to wait, but have got annoyed on here that she hasn't done as she's told and ignored your instructions, that's all there in what you've written, it's no leap to say you were on the 'take charge/bossy' side of thing, it's not a bad thing to be that way in most circumstances, but it can get peoples backs up when they feel they are being 'managed'.

I'm a take charge sort of person, I can recognise everything you've said with how I am in regards to organising things and planning things, and trying to make sure people have a nice time, but it's a fine line between what you think is helpful and organised and what they think is overbearing and patronising, I have to check myself and remember to check with people to make sure they are happy for me to suggest things, or book things etc, I know I would be annoyed if the shoe was on the other foot so it's worth being conscious of it, you should have flat out asked her what was wrong instead of pretending everything was alright and continuing to cajole her into trying to have a good time though, it sounds like the original taxi fare bothered her, the heat, the crowds, the lack of money, it could have been any one of a number of things, or it could be the complete opposite, she maybe expected to go away and not to have to make any decisions as you would already have organised everything in advance, and got fed up wandering around with you asking her what she wanted to do, trying to get her to decide, when she was relying on you to have sorted it all, some people have no initiative and absolutely hate having to make decisions.. you'll never know because you didn't ask her.

But more importantly why on earth would you back down on the taxi of all things, I said it was understandable you'd need to take one in those circumstances, so why did you then walk after all? What was the point of that?