To think my SIL is over the top for this?

[killingpeeve]

In short, my nephew has been found, alongside a few other boys, to be calling a girl 'butchy' butch. This is their nickname for her and they found it hilarious to call her this. SIL was called into the school by head of year. The boys got nothing but a slap on the wrist, in reality. We suspect because they're all Set 1 (top set) and still in process of doing their mocks.

SIL says this is not enough. And she is punishing my nephew by saying he isn't coming on the family holiday - Which is also the wedding of my sister.

BIL is backing her.

AIBU to think this is too much? By all means yes, the school have been to soft here as a consequence. But, surely this is too much?

It means missing his aunt getting married. She is really upset and cried on the phone to me about this.

Knowing SIL, she is very likely to follow through.

It would mean him staying with his nan. And she would continue onto the holiday as planned with BIL

High chance she will see this thread of course. But the family is really upset. It's a wedding.

I'll get chastised for this but, did the girl even mind being called 'butchy butch'? I'm a lesbian, have been in queer circles for decades and I've never known anyone feel insulted by it. Most I know and have known take it as a compliment.
I agree it is not the right punishment. It is punishing other peopel for a start.

What he will take away from this most likely is that women/females/mothers are horrible.

Probably but he's already demonstrated he has some fairly misogynistic ideas about women so blaming a woman for the consequences of his actions would be consistent.

Perhaps if women were just nicer to misogynists they'd respect us. 🤦

Also - are you sure the name calling is the full story? For all you know, he could’ve done something worse along with it, and begged his parents not to tell the wider family?

Personally I’m not sure it follows as a cause-and-effect punishment, but I sure as shit wouldn’t be interfering with this as a wider member of the family. Clearly it’s important to your SIL and brother that their son grows up to be a decent human, so good on them.

She‘s right to be tough. The problem with this punishment is that it also negatively affects other people - people who had nothing to do with the situation.

It‘s the wrong punishment. But I’m afraid it’s also her call to make as a parent.

Not your circus, not your monkeys. For all you know there is a way bigger back story. I think fair do’s for calling him out on this and actually parenting him. Rather than them moaning at the school which often seems to happen these days

I'm with your SIL on this. Finally a woman who's taking a zero tolerance approach to misogyny. Good on her.

Based on what you've said I would also want to come down very hard on this but also wouldn't have picked this unrelated punishment that alienates him from his family and likely drives a wedge between mother and son in a way that is likely to do more harm than good.

THAT SAID I would also recognise that I am not his parent and this is not abuse of a child so it is therefore none of my business and I have no right to a say.

I cannot say for sure, but like I say I've seen her instagram profile from when my nephew has showed me before

She doesn't 'look' like a butch lesbian if you're going by that very specific stereotype

She is a young girl who has a very good looking face, and a shapely hourglass figure who clearly works out at a gym and swims (again just going by what I saw on her profile a while back)

It's clear as day they fancy her and don't know how to address it other than be mean and say stuff that is unbelievably hurtful

She is in his class, top set, and is clearly bright and beautiful. I bet they can't stand it, the boys who want to be close with her but can't

They're all idiots of course. And need a firm consequence

Pretty much this in a nutshell

It's a shame my poor sister is now so upset because she is close to my nephew and now he won't be there

Good for your SIL! School can be a horrible place for some kids, and those kids who suffered grow up never forgetting what they went through. It's just unfortunate that it's your sisters wedding.

Yes. If more parents were like this, school would be a much better place for everyone.

Perhaps she was bullied at school and knows what it is like.

You do realise them "fancying her" and bullying her is mysogonistic I don't know why you are focusing on how attractive a teenage girl is and other teenagers reaction to her are you trying to come across as cool aunty or something?

It is an awful thing to do - but I don't think sanctioning the family holiday is a relevant punishment.

Bright girls can talk shit back.

I think they might sometimes due to peer pressure?

This is exactly what I was thinking. Does the nephew even want to go to the wedding? This could just be a very handy excuse for getting him out of going.

You dismiss the bullying as basically 'negging' because the boys don't know how to communicate with a girl they find attractive.

The name calling is one thing but the 'ganging up' as a group to undermine the confidence and self esteem of another teenager is pretty unpleasant.

It's really no wonder there is so much misogyny around when women are prepared to make excuses for it. "Poor boys, this girl is out of their league and they don't know how to deal with it apart from trying destroying her confidence."

You're making it sound like a one-off, OP, but maybe it's been months of your nephew and his mates systematically bullying this poor girl? Giving her a nickname implies it's been going on a while. For all you know, your SIL and brother haven't shared the full extent of what's been going on, and your nephew may have received previous warnings from school but ignored them, and that's why their punishment is harsh.

I think it is too harsh for a kid who hasn't been in any serious trouble before. I always think where do we go if this punishment doesn't work and short of disowning him and throwing him out how can they go to the next level if he does something else.

It is a ridiculous punishment and I'm surprised so many people think it's ok.

If a smaller kid did this, and the parent said the punishment would be not going to a party they'd already RSVP'd Yes to, the advice would generally be that it doesn't fit the crime and punishes the birthday child.

I know it's different as it's an older kid, but IMO this would cause far too much upset to the rest of the family. He should be allowed to go, and other punishment sought.

I've not idea what might be appropriate but summer holidays are coming up, and if he can't be trusted to be courteous let alone nice to other people then maybe his means of communication should be curtailed - i.e. no phone, no gaming.

I have said, more than once on this thread, it's misogynistic.

I have also said a more serious punishment was needed by the school. And a serious punishment at home too.

Two wrongs do not make a right and spoiling a huge and expensive event when other sanctions could be given is so wrong.

If I was your dsis I’d make it clear to her db and dsil that they attend the wedding as a family or not at all.

I agree, I would have found it hard to be in the same room as my ds if he’d ever said anything like that. Maybe she doesn’t want him at this wedding for her sake as well.

I also sincerely don't hope you have daughters, OP.

'Don't worry about those boys bullying you and making your life hell, darling daughter, they're only doing it because they fancy you! Isn't that great! You're such a lucky girl that they're interested!'

🙄

Tell me you've never been subjected to bullying without telling me.