To have yelled and sworn at DS 12 for 20 minutes non stop in the car

[Lavatera]

Help.
I think I'm going mad and I've damaged my precious DS 12.
I haven't slept all night and I can't stop thinking that the baby I fell so in love with 12 years ago has been yelled and sworn at by me 12 years later.
I feel so, so sad, I don't know what to do with myself.
Yesterday, we had to drive to a town 50 minutes away to see a theatre production.
It was a special treat for my DD's (10) birthday present.
The performance started at 6pm so I knew we'd be driving through rush hour traffic, and the A roads between where we live and this town are well known to be hell at rush hour.
I really wanted to arrive early, in time to find parking, pay on the parking meter, and get to the theatre with enough to sit and have drinks together before going in to the performance. Not to mention I paid a fortune for a family ticket, but it was a show that DD really wanted to see.
So I'd spent 2 days telling DS that he must absolutely make sure that he was ready to walk out of the house at the time I'd set, I told him the time we needed to leave, and I reminded him at regular intervals.
On top of that, I was prompting him an hour before to start getting ready, 45 mins before, 30 mins before, 15 mins before.....he kept telling me I was overestimating the travel time because he'd checked his phone and seen it was only a 35 minute drive. No, I said, that's wrong, it takes 50 minutes, plus it's rush hour so we need to add extra time, plus I need to allow time to park and pay, and I want to arrive ahead of the show starting. I explained to him it was a special evening out and that he must be ready on time.
Nope. He was wasn't ready to leave. I mean by this point I was tailgating him around the house telling him to get dressed, get ready, etc.
So the time came to leave, me and DD had been ready for ages, I'd sent DS upstairs to get dressed, but DS still wasn't dressed, hair not brushed, shoes not on, at the time we had to leave.
Turns out that instead of going upstairs to get dressed and brush his hair like I'd asked him repeatedly to do, he'd decided to ho and sit on the toilet for 30 minutes 'in case he needed to go whilst at the theatre' and he walked out of the bathroom completely not ready.
I started stressing, I knew what the roads would be like, I ended up physically putting his clothes in his hands and telling him to dress, I brushed his hair, he was arguing at me to 'calm down' because I was annoyed by this point. It took him ages then faffing around, before we eventually got in the car 35 minutes later than the time I'd set.
We set off, and I lost it with him. I knew the tailbacks we'd face on the roads and I just developed this irrational anger. I shouted and shouted and shouted. And swore. Oh my God. I was shouting "YOU'RE SO SELFISH! YOU'VE MADE US LATE! YOU'VE RUINED THE EVENING! WE'RE GOUNG TO MISS THE SHOW! THEY WON'T LET US IN IF WE ARRIVE LATE! WE'RE FUCKING LAAAAAATE! LOOK AT THE FUCKING TRAFFIC!!!!! WHY HAVE YOU DONE THIS????" Honestly, I was like a woman possessed. I could not stop shouting. And I didn't stop raging for 20 full minutes. I was shouting so loud he had his fingers in his ears. DD was upset by my shouting.
I can't believe I shouted and swore like that.
For background, he makes us late for almost every single thing we ever have to be on time for. He's made us late for so many important events by just not listening to all my instructions and prompts and motivation and chivvying him along.....nothing, literally nothing works to get him out the house on time. Not even the threat of school detentions when he can't get ready even with my help in time in the mornings.
Christmas. I cannot believe I shouted for 20 mins and swore at my darling boy in a moving vehicle that he couldn't get out of so he couldn't walk away from me.
And upset DD in the process.
So the traffic was gridlock.
We arrived late, missed the start of the show, they let us in but wouldn't let us sit in our seats, they stuck us at the back in staff seats where we couldn't see very well (I'd bought prime position front central seats, I could see them sitting empty), and we all had a miserable evening.

Can he organise anything by himself? Has he always had these issues?

This would absolutely infuriate me.
He's 12, I'd have left him at home if he wasn't ready to go at the specified time. Next time don't wait for him.

Like many others here, I'd have left him. He is messing you around on purpose, deliberately ruining the evening (and what sounds like multiple other events). It's rude and selfish and he needs to pack it in. The alternative is he gets excluded from events so you don't waste money on a ticket. You didn't shout at your "darling boy" you shouted at a little shite bag who ruined an event for his poor sister. No, it probably wasn't the best response, but I get it. I'd be taking her out for lunch or something separately to make up for it. No DS.

i completely sympathise with you, every little hold up sends your blood pressure higher and higher, and for him to let his mum and his sister down like that due to his own superiority is just so selfish. I would also have been just so upset and angry.

Live and learn from this, there should be long term consequences for him around not taking him to timed events for 3 months or something, until he can show he is able to get ready for a set time. No birthday parties or cinema trips or whatever. The effects of his last effort was so bad for the family he had to see that it has really upset you all and that has implications for him.

And he should apologise properly to his sister.

Not the point I was making! I was saying if Dad had done this he would be labelled a pig and she would be told to take the kids away from him for their own safety. The attitudes of some people on this site are a real eye opener for me. How anyone can justify screaming at someone in a locked car for 20 mins straight for any reason is beyond me.
That is not to say that she does not have a reason to be angry with him but her behaviour was still out of line and she seems to know if too but for some reason she is mostly being told that she was completely in the right.

It’s not good but I’ve been there with my eldest. More than once and around the same age. I still feel guilty about it. However four years later he was diagnosed with ADHD and I was in full blown menopause so I realise now there was other stuff going on and try and forgive myself.

He is 20 now and we have a great relationship so don’t worry about long term damage though I have apologised for not being more accommodating.

I realise your DS might be NT however some of the approaches I started to use might work eg I discussed with him in advance before booking anything or including him in discussions and planning for things that were a potential issue so he could think more about taking responsibility for getting ready. It did mean sometimes he didn’t join in things we really wanted to have him included in but we were all calmer and happier ultimately. It was either that or have the other family members and mainly me, late, stressed and angry and every special occasion ruined.

I always feel terrible after losing it and raising my voice. I just can’t imagine going on for 20 minutes though…? I think YANBU for losing your patience in the circumstances, but that’s excessive shouting by any measure. Your son does need to change. Start leaving him behind from the things he wants to do if he’s not ready, or don’t facilitate him getting to somewhere he wants to go if he’s not ready reasonably close to the agreed time?

There's nothing more stressful than lateness and traffic. Shouting and swearing isn't ideal but I don't think I'd have been able to keep a lid on it either. His selfishness spoilt the experience for your dd and I really think he needed a hefty bollocking for that.
Less of the 'my precious baby' stuff and crack down on his shitty behaviour. Next time he pulls this stunt leave him at home.

he kept telling me I was overestimating the travel time because he'd checked his phone and seen it was only a 35 minute drive

At this point I would have taken the phone and told him he could have it as soon as he was completely ready to walk out the door. I would also explain to him that as the driver, the travel time estimation was my call, not his, and when he is doing the driving he can decide what time to leave.

I can’t stand smart arsery.

I am sorry because I feel really sorry for you and it was a horrible situation but yes, this was an unacceptable response. Firstly, because you were out of control emotionally whilst driving and that isn’t safe, secondly because it distressed and scared your kids and thirdly because it isn’t behaviour you want to role model.

However, it’s done now and time to move on. Your son needs a calm discussion, explanation that your response wasn’t right but focus on what he should have done differently, will do differently and consequence (either missing a treat he wants to go to while the rest of you go or money towards a treat for his sister either from pocket money or money earnt from chores might be appropriate?). His sister needs some hugs, an explanation and perhaps an alternative treat with just you and her. And you need to think about strategies for calming down when you need them and avoid ever driving when you feel out of control again.

Hope it all gets resolved.

Not your finest hour, but they can't all be!

The only apology I would be given would be to your DD.

I would say he sounds like one of the infuriatingly lazy DH's that people post about on here in training, but to be honest he's already a fully qualified member of the club!

Perhaps talk to him and acknowledge that you could have acted differently, but that his behaviour was ridiculous. And start leaving him behind. Absolutely no way I would be forsaking my other child's happiness at a treat in order to wait around for him in future.

Take your DD somewhere nice for some quality one on one time.

OP even just reading that gave me the rage on your behalf. I'd have wanted to actually throttle him. You are only human and he behaved disgracefully. Sit him down today when you are calmer and speak to him. Also make him apologise to your DD as he ruined her birthday treat. I wouldn't apologise to him for shouting I'd apologise to DD for upsetting her and arrange a nice outing with the two of you and leave him at home. Also remove some privileges from him as a consequence. It was a deliberate and spiteful thing that he has done.

I had one like this. After I left him behind a couple of times when he was still fannying about, he soon got the message.

Btw, only 12 minutes? Id have gone at it for an hour at least OP 😉

I think if have been the same OP but do you think he has anxiety - the sitting on the toilet as he was worried about going to the toilet?

If he does this maybe next time make him start getting ready two hours before or telling you're leaving an hour earlier than you are

Sounds really stressful! I think micromanaging him and pressuring him so much has probably had the unintended consequences of creating a defiant streak in him where he wants to reassert some control. Being pestered constantly is extremely overwhelming for anyone and does not appeal to their better nature. How would you feel if your manager approached you in this way, for example (minus the screaming)? Next time don't overexplain the timings, the traffic etc. Just set a time, give him a 30 minute warning, and say if you are not in the car by X we will be leaving without you. He's 12, he can be left! He is still a child though so you do have the responsibility to maintain the upper ground, keep in control and not make things more miserable by kicking off.

You should have just left him behind. Seriously.

But you weren't unreasonable to be very, very cross.

Yes, of course it is. If you have a 12 year and they can’t be left home alone then you’ve done something wrong when you raised them.

Come on now. Everyone’s child is different and everyone’s home is different.

Hmmm this situation sounds like my mother and I as a kid, it turned out I have ADHD and dyscalculia which effects time management and focus on tasks.

As I grew up I worked out hacks to being places on time but my mother’s reaction to my poor organisation and time management made me an anxious wreck and now I always arrive an hour early for everything, even work everyday as I’m so anxious to not be late.

I think you need to apologise to your son for your outburst and your daughter for spoiling her birthday treat.

I’d get him checked for sen, because he reads very typical for myself and friends with sen. Some kids especially the clever ones are very good at masking, but it will impact his learning, confidence and healthy development if he is always on the back foot.

If you continue like this you will damage your relationship with your son. It damaged mine with my mother badly.

Does a child who does what OP’s child did sound mature enough to stay at home? That’s the irony. Kids who are smart and mature enough to stay at home are the ones you actually don’t mind having with you. The ones who are dumb as bag of rocks are the ones who shouldn’t be left home because they’ll go out and hang around with other wronguns doing all sorts.

Glad to read this. I was wondering at all the posters (not lots, admittedly) saying he's too young to be left alone.

I don't blame you for losing your temper at him. He was a selfish arrogant arsehole and don't worry about the swearing they hear much worse at school every day.

The thing I'm wondering about though is why he thinks he can debate when is the right time to leave with you or tell you he's right and you're wrong about the travel time. It sounds like he's acting in a 'he knows better than you way'. Why does he think that's the case, does he have misogynistic men around him who put women down or think they're irrational or less than men?

Anyway, what you have to do next time and every time going forward is simply leave the house when you say you will. If he's late or misses out on going, to school, for football, going to his mates, etc it's entirely on him. Literally just say if you are ready by x I'll drop you off if not we are leaving and then stick to it. He's 12 not a baby, he can suffer the consequences.

Your job is to teach him life skills and one of those is learning that if you're an arsehole people stop bothering about you.

I actually am a bit scared how many people are voting that shouting and swearing at children for 20 minutes is "not unreasonable". It's emotional abuse. I think we can all understand that if a husband did this to his wife it would be unacceptable. Its even more unacceptable to do it to children who cannot leave and are completely reliant on you for their physical and emotional wellbeing. It's one thing to lose your temper and quickly apologise and correct yourself, but this is something completely different. Disgusting attitudes.

Both DS and you OP have spoiled DD's birthday treat big time.
I simply cannot comprehend how could someone throw such anger for a solid 20 minutes. Regardless of the cause. I would address that as a starting point, how can you be capable of such an extreme reaction?
You absolutely must apologise to both DD and DS for your outburst.
I can imagine DD was probably frightened and DS shut down and not took in any lesson from this, so he will do his utmost to avoid interacting with you, wondering when your next 'episode' will be, he might improve his behaviour out of fear but revert back as soon as you are not around.

Look into what caused your reaction. Is it the money (expensive treat?), not wanting to disappoint DD (yes it was a birthday treat not life saving surgery timed to the second). Try and get some perspective. Have you had such outbursts in the past, in different circumstances?

Then arrange a different birthday treat for just DD and you.

Then let DS be late or leave him behind if not ready on time for school, his hobbies or family activities. He'll eventually learn to manage his time better. It sounds like, so far, he's been trying to have the last say by disregarding rules and advice, just to prove that he's always right. Not a nice behaviour.

I can appreciate you are already feeling awful and I don't mean to criticise you OP.
But angry behaviour is really not a good thing at all. I personally can't understand it and find it very off putting and I actually ignore it if I ever come accusing it. Not sure if this has anything to do with it, but, growing up, I cannot remember a single instance within my immediate and extended family where grownups were angry. Yes, annoyed by this and that at times, but never angry. My dad in particular, a big and serious looking man, has always been unbelievably calm. To us children and to life in general. Not a jolly type of chap but never ever angry.

I can't believe how many PPs have behaved similarly.