Reform😱

[ForKeenDeer]

Gaining popularity by the minute. Scary times

Had a leaflet through the letterbox today from them. The slogan "Make Britain Great Again" at the top gave me all the Trump vibes I needed to bin without reading.

Sounds like Wales then. Drakeford would allow no dissent in his camp. The SNP it would appear took a similar stance. We'll have to wait and see how Starmer handles his MPs

No the very worrying thing is that if we had proportional representation surely they’d have a lot of seats?

Democracy worries you? Or is it good only when others share your opinions?

Luxury beliefs are not shared by the majority of population in any country. Perhaps it’s time to face the music.

"much of Europe is moving right, it's worrying"

Much of Europe were fucked by right (and much by left as well. Borh extremes are bad ). Maybe proper questions should be asked about why are they turning that way and listen rather than brand them racist straight away.

Good, we must protect ourselves from different opinions at all cost.

Stunning and brave.

It probably stems from Farage having his head wedged so far up Trump's arse he must be able to see out of his gub.

I wasn't born in England or Wales @CoatRack ? I've worked and paid tax and National Insurance here for thirty five years, though.

I’m not a fan of reform, but as a History and Politics teacher you really can’t describe them as fascist in their policies. Think right wing in terms of military and patriotism- so yes tick there for reform but economically they are not fascist. To be fascist you essentially have traditionally left wing economic policies and strict social control. A controlled economy to the nth degree,regimented, 5 year plans, nationalisation etc Look at Mussolini and has economic policies- that is fascist . Fascism is neither left or right but a mixture of both.

Worth remembering that Reform aren't a political party, but a company with Farage as CEO.

Try and vote for the leader -or indeed anything - and see how far you get.

Reform will take a lot of votes as fuck you votes. To show we don’t want labour or Tory fed up of the choice of dog shit or cat shit.

UKIP is what got them scared enough to do the whole Brexit vote so it clearly works.

If many countries are having people suddenly voting in a Way they never world for parties who seem out there, maybe they should sit down shut up and listen to what the people they are meant to represent want. 🤷🏻‍♀️

Seen 2 videos today, from the town down the road .. In one a Reform candidate was saying that he decided to stand after he saw the number of foreign people at the airport (for foreign read “non white”), it was pointed out that many of these people were tourists or British people coming fro abroad .. to which he had no answer.

@ExtraOnions also, a lot of foreigners are white eg Europeans, the US. It's funny because illegal immigrants are hardly going to arrive in England via aeroplane! My non-white grandparents emigrated to England before my mum was born and arrived via aeroplane, but they weren't illegal immigrants.

The racists and fascists are really outing themselves on this thread..

I think Reform may get more ex-Labour votes than you think. In my red wall area, people's opinions are more aligned with Reform's policies than they are with today's Labour Party.

I want to see the Tories gone, but I am worried that if they get completely annihilated at the election, there is the potential for some merger with Reform and Nigel at the helm, possibly on a "sort out the party" ticket. Then we could potentially be looking at a Nigel PM in ten years time.

It's not just about immigrants though. People will turn to more extreme and more sounding to them parties in times of hardship when the prties claim to know the culprit and solution.
One of the reasons Nazi party gained popularity was also because of the economic situation of the time in Germany. The history is repeating itself to a point.

If people were more well of instead of the quality of life dropping, the immigration would be much less of an issue in their eyes.
It too intertwined.

Shall we start with Reform candidate Robert Lomas who described black people as ‘savages’ and ‘have it in their DNA to lie’?

I dunno, but that seems pretty racist to me?

The Swiss take a smaller cut of salary as NI but you pay healthcare separately.

In Switzerland you get 70-80% of your previous salary as unemployment benefits.

We used to have more EU migrants but Brexit put a stop to it.

Wanting to control immigration to a rate that people can integrate properly and stop masses of undocumented men from entering our country illegally when we have no idea who they are their backgrounds is not racist! Reform are offering people an alternative to the main 2 party’s who are pretty much the same. Reform will 100% be getting my vote

Aside from their policies, it does seem odd that they are the are set up as limited company with only three shareholders - rather than how every other other political party in the UK & Ireland is set up doesn’t it?

you’re
parties

🤦🏼‍♀️

The problem is that many Reform voters are very justified in having felt lied to.

Most of them are former Conservative voters.

The Conservative Party, like many other right wing parties over the last few decades, have made electoral hay off of railing against high immigration and promising to cut it. When they’re in power, though, they invariably fail to cut immigration because they know that, faced with a shrinking domestic workforce and aging population, immigration is a necessity.

Reform voters recognize that they have been lied to but don’t seem to realize why they’ve been lied to - so they move onto anti-establishment liars like Trump and Farage, who peddle even more outlandish nonsense - see Reform’s promises to hugely cut taxes while raising public spending and cutting immigration to net zero.

The truth is that, with our current society/economy, net zero immigration and increased spending means a massively increased tax burden for working people - which will continue to increase exponentially as having large families becomes more and more unaffordable.

Why are people surprised? I noticed a move to the right in Europe starting about the time of the Greek debt crisis. It may well have been going on for longer.

If people express their concerns and they are told they are stupid/racist/bigoted etc then don't be surprised when they support a party who appears to be listening to them.

Yes I find it concerning but the shit show at Westminster made space for a right wing populist party. If we're lucky they'll get lots of votes but few, if any, seats and it may provide a kick up the arse for more moderate parties to engage with parts of the electorate who currently feel disenfranchised. I'm not hopeful.

It’s a warning. Europe is heading towards the far right and it is a possibility we will sooner rather than later.

We are usually pretty centrist in the UK, who ever is in power. The far right prosper when people feel disenfranchised and poor. The Tory government have kicked that off however; Labour don’t have the money to fix all the things which are making people feel poor.

We need immigration, we have an ageing population. We need to keep the skills we have as we don’t have enough in certain areas.

People feel angry that they are over taxed. They are.
People feel angry about immigration but we need immigration.
People feel angry about sex based rights being taken away from them.
People feel angry that we aren’t competitive globally in the skills market.
People feel angry they don’t get enough help from the state but it’s the highest on record.

All of this is a cooking pot of disaster. What is not helping is that people aren’t listening. The far left have created a bit of an echo chamber as can often be seen on mumsnet. Slurs, abuse and similar for sharing those thoughts. The only one that people don’t is for expecting more from the state. Often congratulated by the far left. How very socialist.

It is these echo chambers and the inability to listen to people’s worries, often borne out of fear and misrepresentation, that is causing the lurch to far right parties. People often being called far right scum just because they don’t feel like they can vote for the Labour Party. Many, many people don’t feel like they can vote for anyone.

I fear it will get worse when Labour - nor can any party - deliver the land of milk and honey so promised. People will feel powerless and they will take it out on anyone. At the moment it is the higher earners who we need. Once they’ve gone and been obliterated who to target next. It will be a quick realisation that taxing people into oblivion won’t work. Who is next? The immigrants we very much need.

People and parties need to listen to what people are saying without abuse if they don’t want the far right to take hold. It is history repeating itself. The simplistic view that reform voters are racist isn’t helping. It’s actively driving people to these parties. People should read some history books.

This was always going to happen.

This country went too far to the left.

Labour has gone extreme left, Tories are now left of middle.

It WILL swing back to the right - too far.

If you think the Tories are ‘far right’ you’ve not seen what is coming down the road.

And women - will take the brunt of it

Does it bother you that Reform don’t currently have any realistic policies for dealing with illegal immigration? Don’t take my word for it; it’s something Farage admits as much:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nigel-farage-reform-uk-immigration-general-election-b2556227.html

And, if we cut legal immigration, are you willing to pay a lot more in National Insurance? Obviously, if we have fewer workers in the country, then the remaining workers will have to cover the tax shortfall (or we slash public spending by getting rid of things like the state pension).

Reform are, oddly, promising to increase public spending while slashing taxes and reducing the size of our workforce. Does that seem remotely possible to you?