Choose a side: Vinted v disabled users

[Supersimkin2]

Please say what you think. Vinted asked NDN to verify her ID, which she’s happy to do, or they won’t let her withdraw the £300 she’s made selling her stuff.

Life on disability benefits not so easy right now. Her £300 a big deal.

But she can’t do the checks - cos the only ID Vinted accepts is a passport or driver’s licence, neither of which she has as she can’t travel. All the other ID proofs - she has loads - Vinted won’t accept.

We’ve appealed to Vinted three times and they won’t budge. Mangopay, their money platform, refer us to
Vinted.

So Vinted are keeping NDN’s money. They say ‘We hope you will understand’.

YABU = I’m with Vinted.
YANBU = Shame on Vinted.

💐 thanks to
all who suggest a new account! we thought that was dodgy, but if it isn’t that’s a thought.

Turns out the Mangopay uk AI changed after brexit and it can’t handle anything except travellers’ photo ID now.

Mangopay everywhere else in the world still accepts the usual range of docs.

Because spending £100 on a passport to claim £300 of fees still leaves her £200 better off than if she doesn’t apply.

think of it as a business investment. £100 now and she can keep on selling on Vinted for the next 10 years. That’s £10 a year.

I get it sucks, but she will still be better off this way.

I don't drive, and have done a car boot. My mum took me, and sold stuff from her car.

What 'usual' range of docs?
https://mangopay.com/docs/concepts/users/verification/requirements-natural

The only additional documents accepted in most other countries are national ID cards or other centrally issued documentation. Those are usual.

Blue badges, disabled bus passes etc etc are not centrally and securely issued for an appropriate third party verification to take place. They are not usual docs or internationally accepted. They're OK for things like voting which apart from being a farce is solely to match your face and address not anything else.

Pre-brexit it would probably allow EEA national ID cards. But none of the other forms of photo ID your friend has unless she happens to be a citizen of a country with national ID.

A provisional driving license is only £34, even if she isn’t able to drive I think she could apply for a provisional license anyway, she wouldn’t legally be able to drive but it would be good ID to have and obviously £34 is a lot more affordable than a passport.

Can you make an account yourself, make a fake listing and price at 300 get her to buy and withdraw yourself?

Photo ID is so crucial these days.
Ask her to get a passport as it is needed for many many things not just travel.

Vinted would have had this information on thier T&Cs so they are not being unresonable.

Vinted are being unreasonable. I don’t have photo ID. My passport expired 10 year ago and I’ve never had to apply for a photo driving licence. Other organisations accept birth certificates plus one or two other items such as bank statement or council tax bill. I’m a trustee and just had to verify my ID for audit purposes to our accountants and they accepted birth certificate and Ctax bill. Vinted can be challenged over this. Their T&C’s are discriminatory

This will work but needing ID is vital especially for so many online services these days.
Might as well get it, and it lasts 10 years

Not if she has a postal vote she won’t. I would refer mangopay to the equality act 2010. It may be more difficult for disabled people to access the ID they are requesting, so their policy itself may be discriminatory.

Your accountants are a local (or have local subsidiaries) business with humans verifying you + dealing on a long-term basis. They have different requirements to an international, anonymous digital platform.

How?
The entire passport process is done online. You can get assistance in applying from various charities. But if someone is capable of listing and selling items on Vinted they're presumably capable of applying for a passport online.
Poverty isn't a protected characteristic under the equality act and furthermore, anybody selling anything incurs a cost of doing business. Claiming 'I can't afford it' is not a valid justification.

OP's friend can get a passport. She doesn't want to. But she's chosen to sell through Vinted.

@blackcherryconserve she can use the free VoterID that we could apply for online, like I did.

If the OP’s NDN is sight impaired she cannot under any circumstances apply for a provisional licence.

Driving licences are not available to blind people for a very good reason!

If the NDN did have a visual disability and failed to declare that when applying for a provisional licence she would be committing an offence. People are meant to declare if they wear glasses or use contacts when driving and have this recorded on their licences ffs! £1000 fine if you don’t bother to let DVLA know!

So if the OP’s NDN cannot obtain a driving licence, either full or provisional, the ONLY option left that Vinted will accept is a passport.

This puts a financial discrimination in place for certain disabled people that other members of the population do not suffer.

I’d be really, really surprised if that was legal.

Financial discrimination is not a thing though. Being poor is not a protected characteristic.

Additionally to apply for a first passport as an adult the applicant must have their identity verified by someone in one of the following occupations:

You must work in (or be retired from) a ‘recognised profession’. For example:

• accountant
• airline pilot
• articled clerk of a limited company
• assurance agent of recognised company
• bank or building society official
• barrister
• chairman or director of a limited company
• chiropodist
• commissioner for oaths
• councillor, for example local or county
• civil servant (permanent)
• dentist
• director, manager or personnel officer of a VAT-registered company
• engineer with professional qualifications
• financial services intermediary, for example a stockbroker or insurance broker
• fire service official
• funeral director
• insurance agent (full time) of a recognised company
• journalist
• Justice of the Peace
• legal secretary (fellow or associate member of the Institute of Legal Secretaries and PAs)
• licensee of a public house
• local government officer
• manager or personnel officer of a limited company
• member, associate or fellow of a professional body
• Member of Parliament
• Merchant Navy officer
• minister of a recognised religion (including Christian Science)
• nurse (RGN or RMN)
• officer of the armed services
• optician
• paralegal (certified paralegal, qualified paralegal or associate member of the Institute of Paralegals)
• person with honours, for example an OBE or MBE
• pharmacist
• photographer (professional)
• police officer
• Post Office official
• president or secretary of a recognised organisation
• Salvation Army officer
• social worker
• solicitor
• surveyor
• teacher or lecturer
• trade union officer
• travel agent (qualified)
• valuer or auctioneer (fellow or associate members of the incorporated society)
• Warrant Officers and Chief Petty Officers

Doctors are no longer allowed to confirm ID for a passport unless they know the applicant personally, in a capacity outside of the doctor-patient relationship.

Not everyone moves in the social circles that enables them to become friends with solicitors, surveyors, JPs, MP or Salvation Army officers… 🙄

However disability is a protected characteristic under the 2010 Equality Act which states that those with protected characteristics must not be subject to harsher terms than those without in obtaining access to services.

Requiring a disabled person to obtain ID which costs £90 in comparison to someone without the protected characteristic who can obtain acceptable ID for £34 possibly does breach those terms of the EA.

But being disabled is. The finance company has a responsibility to make sure its’ policies are not discriminatory, and in this case they very well may be. A driving licence is cheaper than a passport but if a disabled person cannot obtain a provisional licence /cannot drive because of their condition they would be forced to pay for a passport solely for the purposes of withdrawing money. I would say that’s in breach of the equality act and that either vinted or mangopay need to change their policy to obtain suitable ID on registration of a user account and not on payment of funds legally belonging to the seller.

Disability discrimination involves not only the presence of unfavourable treatment, but the ability to make reasonable adjustments - and the failure to do so, which constitutes discriminatory treatment.

In this case, as an international payment provider with stringent KYC regulations and automated checking, they have to use documents which can be verified to a certain standard.
Every single document, across all the countries, meet this standard.

If they cannot legally relax these regulations then you cannot build a case for discrimination.

The case should really be against the UK government for not having cheaper passports or free national ID, unlike other countries.

Just making a suggestion… 🤷‍♀️

If the company operates in this country it has to comply with UK laws.

Banks ask for photo ID, but, although they don’t advertise this, they know that if someone cannot obtain either a driving licence or a passport due to disability they must ensure those people can still access their services.

So they will often accept a birth certificate in conjunction with a recent letter from HMRC or other official Government department etc.

To say that sight impaired people must only supply ID which costs 3x the price of ID available to non sight impaired people IS discriminatory.

Also @ExasperatedDancer and @Rosscameasdoody it's a similar story for the 'challenger banks' like Monzo which are app-only. They are more vulnerable to fraud, especially identity theft, and so HAVE to use documents in a standard format that can be verified cryptographically/matched against a database.

You are correct about high street banks and despite the reams of complaints about how their processes etc are this is the reason. Unlike digital only platforms they have to allow equal access to their services and account for almost every case.

You talk about UK laws, I posted information from the FCA upthread (not that I expect you to scroll through) about the more stringent identity verification procedures that online only companies have to go through.

Try JVS on 3 Counties Radio - he is brilliant!

Surely she can apply for a provisional in order to get the money back?

If that payment provider operates in the UK they have to comply with UK law, and make sure that disabled people have access to their services. So if a disabled person has to pay more than a non disabled person to provide a means of ID that in itself is discrimination.