Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Discussion over private schools brings out illogical viewpoints, sheer hypocrisy and the worse traits in people?

544 replies

ByPeachJoker · 04/06/2024 23:17

First off, not that it should impact an objective debate, but we do send our son to a private primary school but would consider ourselves middle income earners.

As you can imagine, this is linked to the PMs debate just now, but having read a recent MN thread on a lady who wanted to know how she might be able to avoid paying VAT on school fees should Labour come into power, I was shocked at the vitriol thrown her way. As far as I could tell, the issue wasn't so much that she wanted to avoid the VAT but the majority of comments were coming from people who essentially felt like this lady was somehow getting her comeuppance, that she automatically deserved to suffer some form of penalty just by virtue of choosing to send her DC to a private school. She made a 'bad' choice and should suffer the consequences.

One comment was simply 'how about sending your kids to a state school like 93% of the population'. It completely disregards the fact that there is a child at the heart of this and that a fairly arbitrary tax change is a) going to lead to an additional cost for exactly the same thing and b) for many parents, this change will mean they cannot afford the fees and this may lead to a child's education and social environment being uprooted. I'm not here to necessarily discuss the actual fairness of VAT being imposed on private school fees but more that there is this automatic reaction by a majority of people whenever private schooling is discussed and that this reaction is rooted in nothing logical and is based on the worse of human emotions such that people ignore the fact that many parents are making a financial/lifestyle sacrifice for their children.

Much of it comes from this completely incorrect assumption that you must be wealthy to send your child to a school. I get the impression that many are misinformed and assume that most private schools are like Eton or Harrow and have fees in excess of £20k a year which really is not the case. I think the negativity comes down to the fact that it's people's children that are involved and so people naturally come to see parents who send their kids to private schools as paying for some form of advantage and this being inherently unfair. Now I accept that there are a lot of people who simply could not afford private school fees BUT (and I know this will be incredibly unpopular) to be quite frank, most middle class families can but the parents simply aren't willing to make the financial and lifestyle sacrifice to send their kids to private school and yet they are happy to try and hate on those that do.

Ultimately they might choose to spend their money on a more expensive car, a bigger house, a nicer holiday etc. I used to live in a new build housing development where people in one bedroom flats had brand new Range Rover Sports parked up outside. It was ridiculous that people who could seemingly 'only' afford a 1 bed flat were buying or leasing cars that were almost a third of the value of their home. However we let them make their choice and move on.

Now you can argue about the ethics of private school education but I think those who automatically view parents who send their kids to private school as people who should endure some form of suffering or deserve whatever is coming to them need to look at the hypocrisy they show when compared to their own lifestyle choices but also understand that we're not all millionaires and have actually made a sacrifice for what we hope is the benefit of our children - have you done the same?

OP posts:
ageratum1 · 05/06/2024 09:18

People are tired of PS parents bleating that nearly anyone could afford PS fees if they jst made the scrifices.Then in the next breath saying that they cannot afford a vat uplift!
Yes, hypocrites indeed!!

Soowoowoomoo · 05/06/2024 09:18

stepfordblanket · 04/06/2024 23:43

I was previously quite 'whatever' on the VAT on private schools thing, but the more threads about this topic come up, the more I hope it actually fucking happens.

Spare me the endless whinging of the fucking middle classes.

😅😅😅😅😅

Soowoowoomoo · 05/06/2024 09:19

ageratum1 · 05/06/2024 09:18

People are tired of PS parents bleating that nearly anyone could afford PS fees if they jst made the scrifices.Then in the next breath saying that they cannot afford a vat uplift!
Yes, hypocrites indeed!!

Not WANTING to pay isn’t the same as not being able to pay.

So, yes please do shut up about it.

LlamaTwirl · 05/06/2024 09:20

@Toastycheeks fair enough for the benchmarking - not unreasonable to want appropriate funding for state schools (and other support services) to help reduce the gap between the two though. It would just be nice to see improved schooling for everyone.

Toastycheeks · 05/06/2024 09:22

@LlamaTwirl we can definitely agree on that!

Citrusandginger · 05/06/2024 09:24

If private education is so bargainous that you can pay for it by giving up avocados and driving an old car, you can afford to pay VAT.

Or don't private schools teach maths?

Nothinglefttosaynow · 05/06/2024 09:32

If I were to sacrifice myself so my child could go to private school we would be homeless. My monthly salary doesn't even cover the fees. Clearly I'm not 'middle class' with my income. I do not care how people educate their children, if you go private fine, state school, also fine. However, I do have an issue with people complaining endlessly that they are being hard done by, because they have to pay tax on a luxury - which private education is. A luxury for the few. I live in a very naice area, I actually cannot ever afford to buy a home here due to people pushing house prices up to attend the local state schools which perform well, so I live in a private rent, which I could be evicted from at any time. My daughter has the benefit of a high standard of education & I feel incredibly lucky, but she is worlds apart from her peers in terms of opportunities. I'm sure there are many people like me who struggle when being told if only we sacrificed ourselves more we could achieve greatness for our kids too.

ViciousCurrentBun · 05/06/2024 09:35

Some people send their children purely for the better education but some send for other reasons. For contacts and wanting to keep them away from rough kids and children with additional needs. Thats the unsavoury side.

People often don’t really know what their child is capable of educationally. We did as both work or worked in higher education. So DS got sent to the local rough as you like secondary school which is colourful to say the least. Other MC parents bussed their children out to the next suburb but to me that’s a waste of time on a bus and two sent their children to private schools, one had a very long two hours a day on public transport. DS got all A grades and is now on a degree apprenticeship. He also had time to have a kick about in the park and other stuff as not stuck commuting, the kind of crap you often have to do as an adult.

DH was sent to one of the best public schools in the country and I went to a dire comp, we met working in the same University. We could have afforded private school fees but chose not to becsuse we knew our child’s capabilities and were confident in them.

OMGsamesame · 05/06/2024 09:39

GreenFairies · 05/06/2024 07:50

It’s envy OP. Nothing more, nothing less. And that’s the way society has developed - people glee at children’s lives being uprooted by having to change schools.

Of course there's more to it.

And why do you assume "glee". Not everyone is as cynical as you.

Runsyd · 05/06/2024 09:46

Janedoe82 · 05/06/2024 00:00

Private school parent here who works with actual disadvantaged families. I can 100% see why many people aren’t fans of private schools. The inequality is vastly unfair. A lot of private school parents are out of touch with reality and frankly prats and their children can also be prat’s.
So basically I think suck it up. Spend your money as you like if you feel it is benefiting your children (I did it and kids loved it), but put your big girl pants on and stop gurning about people not liking you for using private schools!

This. I went to a uni where there was a vastly disproportionate number of privately educated kids who then went on to have the choice jobs.

Tortiemiaw · 05/06/2024 09:49

Little bit more worried about Palestinian children, as an example, whose lives have been ever so slightly more 'uprooted' than a few children who may have to doss down with ruffians, tbh, but yep, super envious!

GreenFairies · 05/06/2024 09:51

OMGsamesame · 05/06/2024 09:39

Of course there's more to it.

And why do you assume "glee". Not everyone is as cynical as you.

It’s not cynicism, it’s the many parents posting about it on Mumsnet…

4FoxxSake · 05/06/2024 09:52

Should all be stripped of charity status. Giving a handful of bursaries and funded places. Is not a charity.

OP, sacrifices, poor you my heart bleeds.

Dramatic · 05/06/2024 09:53

GreenFairies · 05/06/2024 09:51

It’s not cynicism, it’s the many parents posting about it on Mumsnet…

It's not envy, it's just that families on the breadline have no empathy for Tory voting upper middle class parents who couldn't care less about the working class. Why the hell would they care when they're struggling just to get to pay day?

OvalLemon · 05/06/2024 09:56

I totally agree with you OP. I think people are angry from the CoL crisis and therefore it’s turned into resentment at anybody “better off” than them. It’s a sad way we live in the UK, people never celebrate financial success yet bash those who have more money than them. All the lefties who are celebrating/thinking anybody who has children at private school will have to move them are in for a shock… it affects their kids too. When they can’t afford a house in the catchment area for the good state school or there are no an extra 15 people in an already overstretched classroom. It’s a lose lose for everybody.
A well educated population is a key driver in driving a nation forward. Better educated tend to get higher paying jobs which in turn gets injected into the economy. I don’t think many people on here can see or understand the larger macroeconomic picture.

GreenFairies · 05/06/2024 09:56

Dramatic · 05/06/2024 09:53

It's not envy, it's just that families on the breadline have no empathy for Tory voting upper middle class parents who couldn't care less about the working class. Why the hell would they care when they're struggling just to get to pay day?

Which is completely fine and perfectly understandable. Why on earth should they.

But posts along the lines of “serves you right” extend beyond no empathy.

OvalLemon · 05/06/2024 09:57

Dramatic · 05/06/2024 09:53

It's not envy, it's just that families on the breadline have no empathy for Tory voting upper middle class parents who couldn't care less about the working class. Why the hell would they care when they're struggling just to get to pay day?

Because now there is an even worse teacher to pupil ratio… they are less likely to be able to afford a house in the catchment area… the overstretched school system will be under even more pressure… your DC’s grades are likely to drop as a result…

echt · 05/06/2024 10:00

GreenFairies · 05/06/2024 09:56

Which is completely fine and perfectly understandable. Why on earth should they.

But posts along the lines of “serves you right” extend beyond no empathy.

I'm not getting why you think any empathy is needed. It's a lifestyle choice.

disappointing2 · 05/06/2024 10:02

I grew up with an immigrant mother and a father who by the age of 26 had created 5 of us (catholic family).

We sometimes didn't have enough food to eat and always wore 2nd hand clothes. Our first family holiday was to a caravan park when I was about 12 and after that we had one maybe two local family holidays during the rest of my childhood. I didn't get on a plane until I was 24 years old.

I have no doubt if free school meals was around when I grew up we would have been entitled to them.

And yet, my parents were still very generous to those even less fortunate them us. They taught me that I would prefer that everyone in society has a decent standard of living - and I am happy to pay more taxes to facilitate that.

They also taught me the value of education as it provides opportunities to all and improves society as a whole.

Because of these views I have voted labour most of my adult life. I donate both time and money to local government schools - and because we can afford it I don't claim a lot of medical and disability benefits I am entitled to.

And because we can afford it, we moved our child with unsupported sen needs at a government school to a private school. She is in her last year now so any increases are unlikely to affect us.

But the virile I have read recently from labour supporters on mumsnet to people who are higher earners in this country - has just been shocking. Basic economics is that you need a certain number of people in the high end of society earning money and paying taxes so they can balance the short-fall of people who are not earning as much money or paying less taxes. That's the only way for everyone to get a decent standard of living.

The whole linking private school parents being upset at a 20% increase to arguments about other English children sadly not getting enough food is just being sensationalist. You could say that about anything in life. Any child around the world not getting enough food or clean water or access to education is a FUCKING TRAGEDY - most people in the UK are much better off than some of these kids in other countries - but do you all share your income? Are you choosing to not buy your child/ren Christmas presents this year and donating the money to these kids so they can eat? Are you forgoing your annual holiday and donating the money to a good cause? Likely the majority of you aren't.

And I know most of you won't care - and you will use my post to attack me for being a private school parent. And its sad - you all seem to be getting pleasure from being angry at others. I had thought that Labour was about being respectful to a wide range of people with different values and beliefs - but clearly I am wrong.

My one vote won't make a difference but I am so appalled at the attitudes of many labour supporters on this website - I am really having to think who I will be voting for this year.

SinnerBoy · 05/06/2024 10:02

There are countries that ban private education such as Russia or North Korea.

And that other horrible dictatorship - Finland, which has one of the best education systems in the world.

Soowoowoomoo · 05/06/2024 10:04

Citrusandginger · 05/06/2024 09:24

If private education is so bargainous that you can pay for it by giving up avocados and driving an old car, you can afford to pay VAT.

Or don't private schools teach maths?

Striving, always striving…

noblegiraffe · 05/06/2024 10:04

OvalLemon · 05/06/2024 09:57

Because now there is an even worse teacher to pupil ratio… they are less likely to be able to afford a house in the catchment area… the overstretched school system will be under even more pressure… your DC’s grades are likely to drop as a result…

Don’t pretend you care about the state of state education just when it suits you to use it to try to protect your golden ticket status.

There won’t be an extra 15 kids in a classroom by the way, they’re already full. Unless you are proposing kids sit on each other’s shoulders?

Soowoowoomoo · 05/06/2024 10:07

‘There are countries that ban private education such as Russia or North Korea.’

Taxing a luxury fairly isn’t banning that luxury. No-one’s banning private schools. They’ll either adapt according to market conditions - the way businesses do - and thrive or not adapt and go bust.

And just as Woolworths went bust, and everyone was all nostalgic about something archaic that they never used, there are alternatives … and not even CHEAPER more modern and more relevant alternatives - FREE alternatives.

stayathomer · 05/06/2024 10:07

If you can make 'sacrifices' to the extent that you can afford private school every year for many years, that's one hell of a lot of unnecessary expenditure on fripperies in the first place.
I sometimes wonder if people just say that because they’re ready for people to hop on them in the same way if someone compliments your top you automatically play it down and feel the need to let you know you got it for a fiver in a sale😅 I always feel the need to let people know I’m on min wage here but dh is on a decent wage. Especially given how angry everyone is on here (someone above said they were fed up of middle class people moaning which kind of insinuates that once someone who has any money they should just be eternally happy with their lot)

Toastycheeks · 05/06/2024 10:09

There are plenty of state schools that are not full because of reducing birth rates. They will welcome private school children with open arms!

Swipe left for the next trending thread