I think mum threatened toddler, she doesn't, AIBU?

[Originalusername89]

I was busy doing something that required both hands.

Baby started crying in her pram, toddler went over and started stroking her head but then this changed to hitting her (toddler has form for this when tired plus overwhelm of baby crying. I genuinely don't think it's malicious, more strange toddler impulse, we are working on it, it's improved, and we always physically separate them if this happens, it's not ok to hit etc etc)

Before I could get there my mum tried to diffuse the situation by telling her to stop and then I heard her say 'do you need to see what that feels like?'

At this point I just dropped what I was doing came over, took my toddler (baby strapped in buggy to easier to remover toddler) and told my mum not to threaten her.

Mum said 'i wasn't threatening her'

I said 'the only way to show her what that feels like is if you were prepared to hit her, which is a threat'

She said 'its not a threat I was teaching her lesson'

I think, even if my mum knows she would never actually hit her, as far as the two year old is concerned her grandmother was prepared to hit her.

For context we have a difficult relationship, my mum can't see things from anyone elses point of view, will never apologise or acknowledge what she could have done differently, will defend her actions until she's blue in the face - so she won't see this from the toddlers point of view only hers which is 'i was never going to actually hit her so it's ok' - and she won't see this from my point of view but will accuse me of overreacting. So I'm not bringing it back up with her.

YANBU: it was a threat and it's not ok to threaten a small child with physical punishment

YABU: It wasn't a threat/you're over reacting

PS. not looking for advice on the hitting please, just did my mum threaten toddler or didn't she?

Quite.
OP is getting her arse handed to her on a plate so hopefully she will take note and inprove her parenting skills a bit (before she has two badly behaved children on her hands)

My greater fear is a seriously hurt baby after the toddler escalates to cracking the baby with some implement or other.

Teaching a toddler a firm No is a necessary lesson. As long as there was no physical action on your Mums part, I think I'd let it go.

Your mum sounds old school, I like old school. I remember a story of me nipping my mum. She nipped me back, I never did it again. I remember my sister hitting out and got a 3 strikes and you’re out warning. She kept hitting and copped a slapped hand. Sounds like you could do with a few pointers off your mum, she sounds like she knows what she’s doing.

Oh but surely both you and your sister are scarred for life!!!! 🙄

Exactly.

I think I agree with this.

Toddler's do go through a hitting phase.

I'd also ask why couldn't the Mum just have done what the OP did, scoop the toddler up and away from the baby.

"I heard her say 'do you need to see what that feels like?'"

That's the same as saying "If you don't stop I will do the same to you." That is not just clumsy wording.

Just wondering if the reason this is causing alarm is that this is not the first time that the Mum has said things along those lines. They have different parenting styles. Its often difficult to manage toddlers when there is a new baby in the house and its unhelpful when relatives come along and give out the message "Baby good. Toddler bad"

I had a relative who told my toddler who was happily pulling off his socks in the pushchair that if he did that nasty wasps would come and sting his feet. Tears ensued. Wasps were not going to sting his feet, but it was still a threat.

I think you will just have to manage this OP with tolerance for your Mum, plus a close eye on your toddler and the baby for a while. I think you were right to remove the toddler and talk to them about it without escalating it.

Jealousy straight and simple from your toddler. They know that when the baby cries the baby will get love and attention therefore any affection taken from them. How do I know? 2 sisters 7 years apart - one stuck an object in their sister's ear as a baby - confirmed by mother, over the course of their life time did everything to undermine their younger sister. When the mother died (day of burial), elder one said now she's mine. Your mother's advice should not be ignored.

YABU. Babies cry because they need something, but your baby is learning that needing something hurts because she gets whacked every time she does!! Your mum was trying to help your baby. You know your toddler hits your baby and yet you let her wander over and start stroking her? Why didn't you tell the toddler to stop moving and leave her sister alone before she got to the pram? Whatever your method is to "deal with this", it simply isn't good enough when your baby is still being hurt for crying.

You need to start being firmer with your toddler and not allowing her to terrorise her baby sister because she "gets overwhelmed", and until she progresses past this point you have to stop letting her interact with the baby without extremely close supervision. Either you are directly by their side and able to pull the baby away the second the toddler raises her hand for a smack, or you tell the toddler in no uncertain terms to not go towards her sister if she starts fussing/crying. Every time. Encouraging her to think about how it would feel if someone hurt her the same way she hurts her sister isn't a bad way to try and build some empathy, and unless you have reason to believe your mum was actually going to hit your toddler you are overreacting and responding to the wrong thing in this situation

I can’t believe all these people saying you are being unreasonable.

It was a threat. She is a toddler. They lack impulse control. All you can do is show her how to use “gentle hands”

I am genuinely shocked and appalled by how many people think that an authoritarian way of parenting is good.

I would tell your mum that you are there to parent and she is not to do so.

My neice was like this when her brother was born. So my sister and all of us shadowed her , stopped it before 9 times out of 10. Was it a pain Yes but her baby brother did not deserve to be hit. And better to stop it at hitting before hitting with an object.

A question for you OP.

Exactly how hard does your toddler need to hit your baby before you will intervene? Think about that, because serious injury or worse could be the result.

Your mum spotted the immediate danger and intervened. Your response was frankly - and I rarely swear - piss poor.

You need to raise your bar immediately. Your mother is not the main issue here.

A newborn baby, utterly helpless, is being hit repeatedly, likely on the head, when they cry. The baby has no idea the person who does it is "a toddler with no impulse control". How on earth is it that some people are more horrified by a toddler being asked how they'd feel if someone did the same to them, than by a baby ACTUALLY being repeatedly assaulted and hurt?? Have some mothers had a frontal lobe lobotomy?

Agreed. There is a time and a place for "kind hands" this is not it.

I’m a granny a definitely wouldn’t speak to my grandchild in that way. I can see how she may easily have said it in the heat of the moment, difficult….

If my toddler was hurting my baby on a repetitive basis, & what I'd tried hadn't worked - you better believe they'd get told that and worse!

A toddler doing it once is enough to get scolded extremely strictly. If I caught them doing it again, they'd be in a lot of trouble.

Who cares if it was a threat or not - toddler needs to learn you can't willy nilly pound on a defenceless baby ffs. I'd be backing my mother here 100% - unfortunately you've undermined her, and reinforced to your toddler they can harm the baby with no consequences.

Your mum was doing what you should have been doing - watching your children closely (especially with a known hitter!!!) and intervening. I'd be critiquing your own skills, never mind your mothers.

Your toddler could easily kill that baby, you do realise that, don't you? It has happened for goodness sake!

I get the point of not smacking children both legally & morally (and agree fully). But honestly there really are some extreme circumstances where it makes me wonder. Running into a road, beating on helpless babies that can't defend themselves... basically being a complete and utter danger to themselves and others. Rather that than them get hit and killed by a car, seriously harm a baby etc. There's absolutely a reason kids are hitting younger and helpless children isn't there - and clearly it's not because they're getting a tap when they do it, is it, as evidenced in this case.

There's plenty of cases where non-shouting parents, using shouting to shock/give the children a fright when it's really bad/dangerous behaviour, doesn't even work.

Your mum wasnt in the wrong. Your toddler is an active threat to your baby. And absolutely if you think toddlers who hit out of frustration, haven't killed babies, there's something not right with your thinking.

Also particularly concerning is stroking the baby first, before hitting them. A bit clever, that is.

This is utterly bonkers.

Exactly, OP is going to end up having a completley traumatised DD who will be terrified of being stroked, because she will be expecting the hit that comes after. Utter madness. Gentle hands, my arse.

'do you need to see what that feels like?'

Is not the same as

"imagine how you would feel..."

YANBU. I'd have scooped up toddler too, OP.

"All you can do is show her how to use “gentle hands”"

No. That's not all she can do. A baby is being hurt. It needs immediate and decisive action to be stopped. Not wishy washy 'gentle hands' BS.

Would you hit your baby on the head, OP? Even gently? No? So why do you think "working on it" is ok rather than taking control of the situation and stopping it from happening?

I think there's a lot in this sentence from OP:

Before I could get there my mum tried to diffuse the situation by telling her to stop and then I heard her say 'do you need to see what that feels like?'

Her mum tried to stop the DD hitting, told her to stop, and THEN moved on to do you need to see what that feels like (which I don't see as a threat).

I take that to mean that the toddler DD did not stop hitting when told to do so. Which rather suggests that the OP's attempts to get the hitting to stop are extremely wishy washy, easily ignored, and as a result the baby is still being hit.

OP your 'working on it' isn't working. And stop making excuses for DD - she's tired, overwhelmed - even at 2 that doesn't wash.

You remove the toddler. Of course I wouldn’t hit a baby. I also wouldn’t hit a toddler. Just a literal google search will show you that toddlers have no impulse control. Hitting or threatening (which they fully won’t comprehend) will also not teach the toddler anything.

I think the fact that the op hasn’t been back, demonstrates that they don’t like/have the capacity to face challenge. Like the ostrich with its head in the sand, pushing the hard truth away is easier and more comfortable than stepping into what is right, but will take effort on her part.

She was angry with her mums actions, most likely, because it highlighted her own inaction and ineffectuality of her own parenting.

Poor baby, and also poor toddler. Whilst toddler isn’t being physically hurt, her blueprint for relating to others is going to be well and truly messed up!

You're half right - "You remove the toddler" and let them know in no uncertain, wishy-washy terms that they are never to do it again.

I don't think anybody on here has said the toddler should be hit herself or threatened. There are ways of disciplining children without hitting or threatening, but "gentle hands" doesn't cut it when A BABY is being physically hurt.

The OP knew her toddler was hitting her baby. She did nothing. She carried on her very important task that took two hands. Even though by her own admission the toddler has "form". She heard her mother telling the toddler to stop. She still didn't stop what she was doing to remove the toddler and reinforce whatever "working on it" strategy she has been using. It was only when she heard her mother say whatever it was that she said that she was then magically able to drop what she was doing and attend to the toddler and stop her from hurting the baby.

She wasn't bothered to intervene when the baby was being hurt. But got very involved when her mother said something that the toddler might not have even understood anyway. To me it looks like OP already has a favourite (golden child?). And if she continues in this vein she is raising the two girls to be in direct competition with each other. And the younger one will always come second place to the fiery temper of the older one. Because OP will be afraid to address the behaviour directly for fear of upsetting the older one. Sounds far fetched at this stage? Maybe. But these family dynamics exist everywhere. And they always start somewhere.

Hahahaha this is my style of parenting