To think Brits dislike success?

[garlicmashpotatoes]

After many years of reading comments from posters on MumsNet and other forums, I get the impression that many Brits cannot stand to see people who have 'more than them' or achieve 'success' when they've worked hard to do so.

In America success is celebrated, and aspired to. Whereas in the UK it's often looked down upon.

Why?

It’s become part of our culture somehow.

Tall poppy syndrome.

I think because we have quite an unequal system here. The class system can still be strongly felt. America is definitely more aspirational and success is more celebrated.

I think it's seen as crass to show off and discuss 'success.' It's weird as it's hard to strike the balance between telling people about something and being seen as a show off. I 100% agree with what you say as I see it in my life.

Yep, tall poppy syndrome.

It’s;

I don’t want you to have more than me. Even though you may have worked your arse off in 3 jobs, I don’t like it. I’m not prepared to work/study that hard to do the same, so instead I’ll try drag you back down to my level.

It’s not a new thing either. When I was a child I lived on an estate in a very rough northern town. Most men on my street were unemployed, but working on the side. My dad had his own business and left at 5am, got home 8pm. He went through a few bankruptcies in hard times. In good times he used to buy a new car e.g. Cortina, Granada.

Without exception, every car my dad got, someone threw acid over it in the middle of the night within weeks of getting it.

It’s a terrible British trait.

I am sure success is celebrated in the states, but my understanding is there is actually less social mobility on the states than the uk and the uk isn't well known for social mobility! In fact its known for lower social mobility that most places.
I think the uk therefore believes that a lot of success is about privileged start points (even when it's not) from old class system hang overs.

Wheras I think the us believe in the American dream still, even though it doesn't seem to work

Don't care what people do and how they got there.

Is this another thread carry on from the latest private school thread?

Another one I find is if you go through a hard time you get no sympathy if you have a bit of spare cash, or live in a nice house.

You could get ill, or hit by a bus, and people shrug their shoulders. If you were piss poor, you’d get a more compassionate reaction.

It’s like as if a detached house or nice holiday means you don’t feel anxiety, depression, loneliness etc. In fact, it’s karma. You get your just deserts.

I’ve had this happen to me loads.

I agree, but I also find it incredibly annoying when wealthy, successful people make it sound as though only wealthy, successful people have worked hard. Stick them in a manual job or a classroom or a hospital for a week and they'd realise their mistake.

Exactly this.

It's usually built on inheritance or luck so then no I won't celebrate it - I might be pleased if it's happened to a nice person , and if it happened to someone who did more to deserve it that others then I would also be pleased

If it's person who measures everything just in wealth - no I would not celebrate that because I don't see wealth as a thing to be proud of in its own right

Be proud of making the world better in sone way not making yourself richer

Different values I guess

Depends what you mean. I’ve worked in finance and then for a local authority where the pay for even senior members of the team will be less than the average bonus of the finance teams where I used to work. The people I work with now have specialised knowledge and huge responsibility and the jobs exist in the public sector because there would otherwise be societal issues that would have a broad impact if they didn’t. My finance colleagues tended to be posher but I definitely didn’t find them to be more intelligent than my current colleagues. I can’t be arsed with the “I work hard for my money” brigade, I used to feel quite guilty getting my bonus then coming home to DH who worked harder for less.

I think there are two issues here, firstly, the scenario where the green eyed monster rearers its head in general, but I don’t think that’s unique to Britain. People will aways wish they had more in societies where there are such financial divides between the rich and poor.

The reason I think people play down their own achievement is that as a pp suggested, it’s seen as crass here to show how successful you are, whether it’s financially, academically or the like… People tend to play it down because they don’t want to blow their own trumpet and if they do, people will shoot them down.

It makes me giggle to myself when I’m somewhere that attracts American tourists. I can always hear them before I see them. DH and I roll our eyes when we hear them talking (shouting) loudly to each other. It’s almost as if they want everything within a certain radius to know they’ve arrived. They certainly aren’t wallflowers, meek and quiet, they’re very confident and loud. That could part explain why they they aren’t shy to share their success.

This is absolute rubbish.
We just do not think lots of money stops us criticising someone who is an arsehole.

‘Success’ in the American Dream kind of way was probably seen as a Petite Bourgeoisie characteristic by the upper middle classes, educated classes of the past, that outlook probably continues to have an impact. Ultimately, the British class system is what it is about (as per).

People do not like showing off. But that is whatever it is. If you have bought a new house we will say that is lovely and come over while you show us around. But if it is a massive place, don't expect us to be any more gushing than if it was a terraced house. You having a new house is irrelevant to anyone else, people are just polite when you are excited about something.

I think “success” is different for different people. Being a millionaire who works all hours and hardly sees their family wouldn’t be my idea of someone living a successful life so why would I celebrate that?

It's this for me, the insinuation or sometimes outright, almost 'accusation' that if you're not as successful as someone else, it's because you're lazy/uninspired/not intelligent enough/haven't tried hard enough and nothing else counts, there can't possibly be any other influences.

I don't doubt successful people have indeed worked hard and made sacrifices, but that doesn't automatically mean that someone else who isn't seen as successful hasn't worked hard and made sacrifices too.

People are rarely successful in a bubble, there's a whole host of people who have given support to enable it to happen, but if they happen to be viewed as not that successful, they're written off almost, yet they've likely been integral to other people and their ability to work hard and get where they are.

I do not personally see this.

What does really annoy me though is when people always credit their success to their hardworking alone.

Your parents, where you live, go to school, inheritance, good health all play a big part in success.

Of course there is the odd rags to riches tale but if you've started your life in care you chances in life are severely less optimistic than someone with two loving working parents.

I don't actually think people have an issue with success at all. Most people seem to really admire it.

I think people do object when successful people assume that they are successful because they have worked harder than anyone else... that is an attitude that I've seen more here in the UK than in some other cultures, where I've seen people much more willing to acknowledge that it's usually a mixture of hard work and good luck.

Some cultures also have a much greater tradition of philanthropy and giving back than we have here in the UK, and I guess that may also make a difference to how people are perceived if they are financially successful.

What I find hard is the backlash when you use the phrase ‘work hard’ and lots of others pile on to say ‘I work hard but earn the minimum wage’ etc.

I come from a very poor childhood, but worked out what job paid well at an early stage in life, worked hard (mostly in the evenings with a text book by myself as my school was so chaotic) to get the necessary grades for the applicable uni course, worked hard with 3 jobs at uni and lots of study to get a good degree, worked hard for professional qualifications, then got a high paying job. I have worked hard from about the age 10 to get where I am now. Financial security is important to me due to my upbringing.

Did those who deride those on good salaries really work hard at school and every step beyond in life? Because the vast, vast majority of my
classmates at school messed around the whole time and bullied me for trying to better myself. Yes there are those who have a chaotic home life growing up who would have been unable to do the level of schoolwork I did, but an awful lot of others didn’t really start working hard until they got their first job and by that time it is usually too late.

Also the idea that cleaners, labourers, teachers, care workers, nurses just aren't working hard enough is laughable.

Yeah nothing pisses me off more than wealthy people who attribute it to ‘working hard’. Like the rest of just sit scratching our arses…No it’s privelege dipshit.

And that’s why ‘British’ people don’t like it - we prefer fair play, level playing fields, quiet integrity and favouring the underdog. Leaving crass bragging and whooping to other cultures thanks.

It's interesting. I haven't heard of this Tall Poppy thing.
But I believe it to be true. I'm not from this country, a third world country in fact. People are SO much nicer and genuinely happier for you. It's because we have so little, one person's success is everyone's success.
I find this the opposite here, like dog eat dog.
People wanting to report people for earning benefits, someone has a nice house - oh it must be inherited, bank of mum and dad, people become successful in their career- it must be down to luck, connections etc.
look at the private school threads. People tearing each other down because they can't afford that for their kids.