To think Brits dislike success?

[garlicmashpotatoes]

After many years of reading comments from posters on MumsNet and other forums, I get the impression that many Brits cannot stand to see people who have 'more than them' or achieve 'success' when they've worked hard to do so.

In America success is celebrated, and aspired to. Whereas in the UK it's often looked down upon.

Why?

What about the other kids from poor backgrounds who worked just as hard as you but didn’t get a good job with a high salary? You have to admit, a large part of success is blind luck — applying for the right job at the right time, getting an interviewer who likes your face, having parents who actively support your home learning and don’t expect you to put down the textbook and babysit your younger siblings while they go to work.

I think that is a garbage cliche and that Brits are just as capable as anyone else of admiring others' "success" -- or, more correctly, their "financial success", since I think you are talking about wealth rather than, eg, successful relationships or successfully improving their local community or environment etc etc.

It's just that, although Brits feel very happy at the thought of wealthy people deriving happiness from the wealth that they worked for, they are more likely than Americans to balance that with a sense of social justice, ie with an acknowledgement that:

(a) many poor people also work hard and have simply lacked the good fortune (supportive family, talent, etc) to translate that into £££, or have chosen to work hard at a task that society doesn't reward with wealth, like nursing and so forth

(b) it is right, good, just for the financially successful to contribute to society in proportion to their wealth, and to do so gladly - because it is their duty in justice.

I feel super-happy for anyone richer than me - as long as they pay their taxes and don't tell lies about poverty.

Haha well said.

In terms of the US, isn’t it a facet of their identity, the pioneers and establishing themselves via wealth and land acquisition? Obviously, that doesn’t apply to Brits who stayed put and weren’t pioneers in any sense of the word!

Typical.

I

I only begrudge people doing extremely well when they have had it handed to them – private school, nepotism, extreme wealth that has pulled strings. Otherwise, good for them.

Because we have a moneyed class in this country who generally seem to believe that their wealth is solely due to their own efforts and not luck or inheritance (oh no). The same moneyed class who deride others, look down on the disabled and anyone in receipt of benefits as the undeserving poor. And whenever they are called on it they start bleating on about ‘the politics of envy’.

In terms of the US, isn’t it a facet of their identity, the pioneers and establishing themselves via wealth and land acquisition? Obviously, that doesn’t apply to Brits who stayed put and weren’t pioneers in any sense of the word!

Of course it applies to Brits, many of whom travelled and acquired land throughout the world through the process of colonisation. Perhaps our history as colonialists has helped us to be a little bit more honest about the potential injustices that accrue around individual wealth

Yeah definitely, people always look for some sort of privilege when people are successful. And often it’s true or a dose of luck (like having a very high IQ) but some people really do just work their arses off, they take all the risk and all the reward, sometimes what you are looking at is years of barely any sleep working and/or studying every hour god sends. As long as you pay your taxes I’m fine with people being a whole lot more successful and wealthier than I am.

There was an interesting article on millionaires in america and it was actually often small business owners rather than bankers in pinstripe suits. Anyone who’s been around someone who runs their own business will know that those people literally have work on their minds 24/7, they don’t really have holidays or weekends in the sense that most people do.

On a side note I generally love americans, they don’t seem to suffer from an excess of pretentiousness on the whole, I like the openness.

But if someone goes to private school (which lots of posters on MN think isn’t an advantage whatsoever) and they work incredibly hard to get all A* and they work incredibly hard to get a good job/work 100 hour weeks it’s pretty shitty to ignore all the work and just attribute success to their school, isn’t it?

the two things aren’t mutually exclusive. Just as not getting paid highly doesn’t mean you don’t work hard, having a good start in life doesn’t mean you don’t work hard either.

When someone successful says they “worked hard” I always think that means they’re saying they didn’t get it handed to them so they had to work as hard as anyone else. Not that they’re saying other people don’t work hard.

it’s more “I worked hard too”

The fact is that in Britain that is the case though, wealth and assets are inherited and not much ‘hard work’ can be attributed to it. Of course that isn’t the case for everyone who is wealthy but there are many rich people in Britain that happen to be rich from luck of being born into a certain family.

I’m not sure. A lot of the “I worked hard” comments tend to be combined with “while everyone around me fucked around” - that doesn’t sound like “I worked as hard as everyone else”.

You’ve obviously done really well for yourself and that is admirable considering your upbringing. Having said that, the fact that you were able to pass the exams in order to further yourself is initself quite lucky.

I understand what you mean in general and I agree with the most part, but not everyone has the academic abilities to pass the types of exams you passed. I’m not trying to take away your achievement, but just to understand that even with all the will and want in the world, some people would still not be able to achieve what you have.

Ah, is it time for our quarterly 'why do the plebs not known their place' threas already?

I'm not sure opinions will have changed much since you (or one of the other tory defense squad) last asked this question in Feb OP.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5006373-does-the-uk-begrudge-success?page=1

It depends if your only definition is success = money.

There is a horrible prevailing myth in this country that people in poverty somehow ‘choose’ to be in poverty. It’s deeply wrong and a sign of a sick society that people subscribe to this utter bullshit which is demonstrably disproven by endless research evidence…

how on earth is someone passing exams “luck” rather than hard work?!

I didn’t say I ignore it, but I’m far more impressed by a low income, state educated individual reaching typical post-private schooling success. It is also easier for them to achieve higher results so the effort put in is, by and large, less.

It's almost as if people don't understand how much easier it is to 'work hard' in a good, well-resourced school, with enough teachers, interested and supportive parents who help you achieve your goals, when you're well nourished and looked after, and then to 'work hard' in the good job you get as a result of all that (safe in the knowledge that if it doesn't work out, you have the safety net of mummy and daddy) .

Yes, of course some people from very modest, or deprived backgrounds do really, really well, but the point is that they are the exceptions. They have to have a LOT more drive and determination than people who have had all the advantages. Some people's upbringing is enough to grind away any ambition they might have had. I know - I've taught quite a few of them.

Of course it’s more impressive, but it doesn’t take away from the success of the private school person, and there is a common theme
on this thread of few pages already that shows people basically view any sort of financial advantage as someone not really being successful in their own right. I know very few people who have been handed stuff on a plate, even if privately educated. I think it’s an advantage but you don’t buy exam grades - that’s pure work.

Yep. This.

I'm more than happy to celebrate success, however it's rare that people do it all themselves. There's invariably a team behind them, whether it's a wife, a family, a work team and that seems to be forgotten.

It also seems that in America success may be applauded, but it's a shame that a lot of the time it's always at the expense of others ie shit wages, lost income from multiple bankruptcies....

I was referring to the working classes not the colonialists, very few families benefited from that level of wealth acquisition whereas those who left for a life in America where also from poorer backgrounds and had to make this happen for them; it is absolutely a facet of their cultural identity, in a way that it just isn’t here.

In America success is celebrated, and aspired to.

You are aware why comedy panel shows don’t work in the US, aren’t you?

American comedians are all out for themselves. They won’t banter and build each other up for success so another comedian will get the laugh.