To think Brits dislike success?

[garlicmashpotatoes]

After many years of reading comments from posters on MumsNet and other forums, I get the impression that many Brits cannot stand to see people who have 'more than them' or achieve 'success' when they've worked hard to do so.

In America success is celebrated, and aspired to. Whereas in the UK it's often looked down upon.

Why?

how on earth is someone passing exams “luck” rather than hard work?!

Some of it is always luck, as it's partly down to innate intelligence. There are plenty of people who would never do well in their exams, however hard they worked. I've taught a fair few of them as well. The idea that anyone can do anything if they work hard enough is simply not true, and it's quite frankly cruel to tell children that.

I agree with you.
IME people who say this like the OP expect us all to be super impressed by their jobs and money. Not going - wow what amazing things you have achieved, how rich you are - is very different from not celebrating success.

I never said passing exams was down to luck. I said no matter how hard someone else revises and tries to pass the same exams, they won’t ever be able to as they haven’t got the aptitude to do it.

For example, I know I could never pass the exams to be a doctor. I’m fine with that because most people wouldn’t be able to pass as you need to have above average intelligence and I’m average as a re most people. It wouldn’t matter how many hours of revision I put in, I would still never be able to pass!

It's cultural jealousy.

It's not about success as such. It's just about being better at absolutely anything. Whether it be better looking, better at football or just clever.

It's anti-snobbery that's socially acceptable.

It's horrible.

It's all about insecure dickheads wanting someone else to shit on to make themselves feel better about themselves.

You buy the relative ease which puts you in good stead to achieve those results – when all is said and done, good exam results are effectively purchased in comparison to someone who has had few of those advantages, if any.

My household has a high income and we can afford private schooling (but don’t) – this is not an envy opinion.

There is an element of 'luck' in that we all have varying levels of intelligence to start with. Some people will never be academically clever enough to get all A*'s or get into Cambridge or to get a doctorate etc., no matter how hard they work. It's not true that hard work always gets top results.

@Didimum If I know someone who went to private school and had tutoring I would congratulate them on their exam success.
I would also congratulate someone who went to a shitty school and had a difficult family background who achieved less impressive exam grades.

This. Saying ‘I worked hard’ is not saying that others didn’t.

No, working hard doesn’t guarantee a high wage, but that doesn’t take away from the hard work of someone working in a field that does.

I was an immigrant in the UK and I have noticed that attitude tbh, it’s ’if I can’t have it no one should. No one else deserves it, and if they have it they’re bad people/secretly miserable/insert class based insult here.

I’d congratulate anyone who has either performed well, worked hard or both, but I think more of the person who has had the less advantage.

I think the work hard brigade from wealthy backgrounds often do not recignise the advantages they had, and think anyone could do what they did.
Lots of people work hard.

You mean they’re educated in an environment that encourages and enables them to achieve to their full potential?

It’s always funny how that is on one hand derided and dismissed as ‘spoon feeding’, whilst simultaneously being touted as something all children should have access to.

'I worked hard' isn't really meaningful as a stand alone sentence, the effect/result of hard work will vary depending on other factors.

I worked hard and am reasonably intelligent so did well in my exams.
I worked hard and my partner supported me while I studied for professional exams.
I worked hard because I went to a school where that concept was promoted in a positive way.
I worked hard but still didn't get very good results.
I worked hard but I still couldn't afford to pay my way through University.

Tall poppy syndrome doesn't just apply to working hard though.

If you are bright and can just do something without working hard you get abuse for it too.

It's just jealousy. People can try and argue differently and rationalise it in whatever way they like but that's what it ultimately comes down to.

When I taught at a private girls' school, I once had a bit of an argument (perfectly civilised!) with one of my older classes. They were absolutely convinced that absolutely anyone could become a doctor if they wanted to and if they worked hard enough. I could not convince them otherwise, however hard I tried, even when I gave them examples of the ability levels of some students in other schools.

In a way it was a sign of their belief that everyone was valuable and equal, but really it was just because they had probably never met anyone in their circles who wasn't intelligent enough to do a job like that, or who would be unable for other reasons to achieve that level of job. So the flip side of that seemingly nice attitude was that, logically, they would think that anyone who didn't achieve that level of job simply wasn't working hard enough. But they thought I was being mean and superior by underestimating people. It was very frustrating!

I would tend to agree with the OP however, I’ve never met a Brit who doesn’t save some money every week or month whereas I’ve only met one American couple who save as a matter of habit.

I agree. I think it explains why rubbishing America is practically a competitive sport on MN.

Your example explains perfectly how some people, in this case your students, really are living in a bubble.

‘I worked hard’ isn’t usually a standalone statement, most posters that use it do so whilst providing context as to what they’ve worked hard at.

No, not everyone that works hard will achieve the same. That’s basic capitalism. Different fields command different wages, and a hard working cleaner isn’t going to make the same as a hard working stockbroker. That doesn’t mean the stockbroker hasn’t worked hard to gain and keep their position.

Is it funny when that environment is purchased and further segregates society? I don’t find that funny at all.

I don't think it's healthy to 'rubbish America', but some of the politics and attitudes coming out of the USA are quite worrying. There is also a tendency to 'each for himself' which doesn't really work at the society level.

Its weird isnt it. Schadenfreude is the order of the day. People will vote against their own/family/ future generation interest as they thrive on others having a hard time, and can't stand the thought of anyone else having a chance of better opportunities in life. I know 2 women in particular and I see this on FB - where I seem to spend much time blocking pages these days - wildly jealous of women celebrities, speaking as if they actually know them personally and seemingly annoyed that these celebs haven't had to work their fingers to the bone; & even if they've come from a poor background, the angry scorn is still there. But who made the 'rule' - that you only deserve success (not just talking about celebs here) unless youve suffered for it? If you're working class, that is. Yet the same people will vote for those who've never known a day's hard work in their lives and then in turn be happy those people are making others' lives difficult. Cutting down the Tall Poppy is the aim.

We must be reading different threads.

@InterIgnis and maybe the cleaner has worked hard to get a stable life and get a full time job?
I am thinking of the woman I knew who ran away from home at 14 and lived on the streets in London for quite a few years. Getting out of that into a stable home and job took very hard work and determination.

It’s funny when people can’t pick a narrative and stick to it, yes. Either providing a supportive educational environment is a bad thing as all kids should be subject to the hunger games, or it’s a good thing that all children should have access to. That all children don’t have access to it doesn’t suddenly mean that it’s a bad thing for those that do.

I prefer to live in a society where people do have the liberty to choose tbh, and I am quite fond of capitalism.

Never generalize from a very small sample size. Edited to add that most Americans would consider it quite nosy of you to ask such a question about their finances and wouldn't volunteer the information in casual conversation.

https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/banking/data-2023-savings-report

About 9 in 10 Americans (89%) save on a regular basis, according to a new NerdWallet survey conducted online by The Harris Poll. And although financially responsible purposes such as emergency funds and retirement top the lists of savings goals, there is work to be done: 155.6 million Americans — 60% of them — don’t have a retirement-specific account, according to the survey of 2,035 adults from March 30-April 3, 2023.