To think Brits dislike success?

[garlicmashpotatoes]

After many years of reading comments from posters on MumsNet and other forums, I get the impression that many Brits cannot stand to see people who have 'more than them' or achieve 'success' when they've worked hard to do so.

In America success is celebrated, and aspired to. Whereas in the UK it's often looked down upon.

Why?

Having said that, the fact that you were able to pass the exams in order to further yourself is initself quite lucky.

So the poster that you responded to:

Started working at 10

Had to self teach because they were not being taught in school

Had 3 jobs to support themselves at Uni.

Then worked hard for a professional qualification

Your take from all that is 'you were lucky'.

I’m not trying to take away your achievement, but just to understand that even with all the will and want in the world, some people would still not be able to achieve what you have.

Yes you are. That poster worked hard and you belittle it as luck. What the actual fuck!

This mindset right here is exactly what is wrong with this country. Its like a disease that breeds resentment that others would dare drag themselves towards any form of stability no matter how fragile. Why can't you be happy for that they are not wallowing in the self pity that many others are, bleating about how they are entitled the fruits of the labour of the the hard work of others.

Some people may never be able to achieve what that poster did but many others could do that and more.

Much of the ‘hard work’ for people who don’t have those contacts is developing that network, is assimilation into an area of work which is totally out of their comfort zone having not grown up with those references or knowledge of that world. There are loads of examples of that and they aren’t just in finance, working at the BBC in broadcasting is evidently similar- nearly all the political editors have gone to private school, well known ones and Oxbridge, if you look at their family connections they are used to that world.

And I didn’t say otherwise. You’re trying to force the narrative that saying a high earner works hard is somehow saying that a lower earner doesn’t, and that the higher earner isn’t actually working hard.

Neither are true.

This is such a depressing thread.
No, success does not always = money. But money is really important when it comes to choices. Without it, they are limited.
Privilege does not always = money. Privilege can be extremely basic, and in may families in the UK this is not available (thanks to the government and society we live in):

• parents who can spare the time to interact
• access to books/learning (and family that value this)
• academic learning is not the be all and end all, vocations should be seen as 'less than'

Some people work 'bloody hard', some people don't. If your perception is that you are working hard, then 80/20 you are.
We should celebrate all success on an individual and societal level.
We don't. If we did, our society may be a better place.

No, that is a part of it. Sometimes that doesn’t take hard work tbh, some are born in an environment where those contacts come naturally.

Having an advantage doesn’t negate the fact that they still need to work hard to gain the necessary qualifications and prove their ongoing worth.

I think success means different things to everyone. Success doesn't always equate to hard work though and I think that people who do work hard but perhaps aren't where they'd like to be and therefore don't consider themselves successful get annoyed by those who seemingly found it effortlessly.

Also those who crow about what they have, success doesn't always need to be material I think that's where the green eyed monster comes out.

I do feel that people aren't good at celebrating others in the UK it's seen as crass or being egotistical, whilst we don't need to discuss someone's successes all of the time I think it's really nice to acknowledge a person for finding their happy.

This is exactly it
Thank you @WildFlowerBees

The environment is not ‘the bad thing’. The accessibility to is the bad thing. The inequality, on a long reaching generational scale, that it produces when it isn’t freely available to all is the bad thing.

You don’t live in a society where people have the liberty to choose. You live in a society where only the privileged can choose.

I'm not trying to force any narrative.
I'm making valid points.

With regards to the 'working hard' thing- I used to get annoyed at a relative of ours who has since died who always used to say - 'well it wasn't always easy for us we had to work hard'. Bearing in mind she hadn't worked more than 10 hours a week after her first child, even when her kids were adults. - unlike me who had to be back full time with a 14 week old baby. - I'm not saying she sat on her arse doing nothing, but being a housewife for 40 years isn't the same - and the 'we' was really her husband

You’re trying to force the narrative that saying a high earner works hard is somehow saying that a lower earner doesn’t, and that the higher earner isn’t actually working hard.

(I know this post wasn't aimed at me.) Imo it's not that people actually actively think that, it's that wealthy, successful posters who (often quite defensively) say how hard they worked for their wealth give the impression that they think it was through hard work alone, and give the impression that it perhaps hasn't occurred to them that lots of modestly-paid and poor people work really hard too.

It the politics of envy.

"You have something I want and I don't think you deserve it. I'm going to bully you and make you feel guilty for what you have and I'm going to grind your spirit down until you hand over everything you have."

I'm the same nowadays because of longterm infertility. I see parents enjoying their kids, or not in some cases, and I warm over with seething jealousy. But I know it's just sheer luck, that I don't have.

To be perfectly honest, we really are a jealous, miserable lot.

I didn't think so until I had ds and needed a job near his primary school so went to work for a small local company rather than the London-based companies I normally work for.

Two companies - they were the same in that I was sneered at because I had a degree - despite them both hiring me when my degree was on my cv.
I was referred to as 'posh' despite being a single mum from a working class background, driving a 10yo car.

The office manager took the piss regularly because unlike her, I didn't always go to work in jeans and a sweater. In the summer sometimes I wore a dress (shock horror). I did a crossword or sudoku on a Friday lunchtime. That made me stuck up. Not being a huge fan of Love Island made me a snob.

I went to an ex-poly, it was hardly dreaming spires. Their attitude was bizarre. I was very glad when ds went to senior school and I could work for a sane company again.

Describing a supportive educational environment as ‘spoon feeding’ is presenting it as a bad thing, and those that have access to it as somehow unworthy of their accomplishments.

I have no issue with tackling inequality, but that doesn’t mean I think the answer to that is denying those that can afford it access to such things as private education.

I don’t know of a society where the privileged don’t have greater access to things than those with less. I do prefer a society that does protect individual liberties and private enterprise over putting everything in the hands of the state, though. As I said upthread, parents both come from communist countries, and elitism was in many ways far more entrenched in those than it is in the UK. Good luck getting into a good school/university/job in either of those if you didn’t have the right contacts!

This.

Also incredibly annoying to assume that wealthy, successful people have never worked or didnt get that way by working in manual labour, a classroom or a hospital.

My house is not selling. I recently sought out advice on Mumsnet, many comments were posted along the lines of “my heart bleeds for you” - they were in the minority but significant enough in numbers.

I haven’t done anything spectacular beyond doing well at my a-levels, getting into a good uni and securing a corporate job.

My grandparents literally came to this country with a few pounds in their pocket. Leaving all they knew and loved behind in India.

This idea that everything I have has somehow been given to me is beyond hurtful. My siblings and I were hit and screamed at if my parents thought we weren’t studying hard enough. Yes, they did it out of love but the experience was traumatic. The expectation to do well was akin to living in a pressure cooker.

I will send my kids to private school. Some on this website would have you believe I am a member of the landed gentry.

I will never deny the one privilege I had growing up was the fact I had parents who wanted (their version of) the best for me.

I hate that term. It’s the modern equivalent of ‘the rich man in his castle, the poor man at his gate’… we are not allowed to discuss fairness or equality in case we look mean. Oh dear.
Sorry for your troubles btw

What do you mean, “no, that is part of it.” ? I am literally referring to people who aren’t born into that environment, it is bloody hard work to gain that network of people that will provide you with opportunities that are equivalent to people born into them- so how can that not be harder work? Completely illogical.

Yes and No, it is hard to tell as in cases where you have been appointed on connections, you may be very good but you have not been part of a fair recruitment basis they may well be someone much better than you.

I didn’t call it ‘spoon feeding’. You did. In fact, I don’t even think it is spoon feeding. But I do think, behind race, it is the single largest segregator of society and causes the largest chasms in advantage. It is not that the environment should be removed, it is that it should be available to all. If it’s impossible for it to be available to all then education should be levelled for all. Everyone benefits from a well educated society.

I also didn’t say they are ‘unworthy’, I said their less privileged counter part is more worthy.

You are more capitalist, I am more socialist. We are allowed to disagree.

I’m disputing the idea that it’s the cultivation of those connections that constitutes the hard work, and that those with easy access to them aren’t working hard themselves.

again, having advantages doesn’t mean that someone isn’t working hard.

Wooaahhhh you’ve taken what I said right out of context and as per what happens on here, selected certain aspects to suit your narrative.

Ok, put it this way if you can’t grasp the full context of what I said……. My disabled child can’t read and write, never mind pass an exam! Not sure if they’ll ever be able to live a typical and independent life. The card they’ve been dealt with is shit and there is no hope they could ever get a professional job.

So given the context, peope that don’t have disabilities are lucky yes!!

Nobody has said that.

It’s the creep of Marxism which is spreading through our schools, universities.

Except those that have, of course. ‘Had it handed to them’ means just that, as if their own hard work is of no consequence.