To think Brits dislike success?

[garlicmashpotatoes]

After many years of reading comments from posters on MumsNet and other forums, I get the impression that many Brits cannot stand to see people who have 'more than them' or achieve 'success' when they've worked hard to do so.

In America success is celebrated, and aspired to. Whereas in the UK it's often looked down upon.

Why?

Sure, I didn’t state otherwise. What I said was that a hard working cleaner isn’t going to command the same wage as a stockbroker. That doesn’t mean the stockbroker hasn’t worked hard.

I see your point

If you have a class of Uber privileged British kids I guarantee that the 'class swat' will still be bullied

It's not about privilege or envy. Or class. Even though people will try to tell you it is.

Your example explains perfectly how some people, in this case your students, really are living in a bubble.

Indeed. And how easy it is to say 'Well I worked hard for my huge house and exotic holidays'. Yes, no doubt you did. And you might also be a very talented, kind and generous person. Just remember how much easier your privilege made that, and maybe wonder if you'd be in the same position now if you'd had the same level of intelligence but had a very different upbringing.

I say that as someone who had a very nice upbringing myself btw (middle class comfortable, not very wealthy). I guess my (not particularly well-paid) job is one where I see every day the obstacles some people face (I no longer work in a private school!), so it's pretty obvious to me.

Are you trying to say that private education isn’t a privilege? If it didn’t give kids an advantage then parents wouldn’t pay tens of thousands of pounds for something they could get for free!

I would take a state educated student with all A’s over a privately educated student as they’ve still achieved the same grades despite being disadvantaged!

Lack of work ethic, passing the buck and blaming everyone else etc. All this 'pay their fair share' rubbish with regards to wealthy people despite the wealthy people being the top 1% of taxpayers paying 30% of all taxes, that is to say around £3 in every £10 taxed to the government is taxed from just 300,000 people. As soon as the numbers come out, the idiots that complain about the rich either find other ridiculous arguments to plead poverty or they pipe down. Unfortunately, a lot of the wealthy people are leaving the country and taking jobs with them, and it's making the country a very expensive place to live.

In all likelihood a Stockbroker is not going to have just worked hard though, it will be a position that is more likely to be filled by someone who has the right contacts. That isn’t to say anyone could do it but it is silly to suggest that such job appointments are just down to a meritocratic system as they are not!

Hello Boris,
How the devil are you?

You've almost proven my point.

Two threads I recall in the last year or so had subjects like:

Why are Americans such Lazy Cooks?

and

Why can't Americans speak proper English?

I see some politics and attitudes in the news from the UK that are a bit concerning too, but I don't feel the need to have a go at you all as individuals about them.

I was an immigrant in the UK and I have noticed that attitude tbh, it’s ’if I can’t have it no one should. No one else deserves it, and if they have it they’re bad people/secretly miserable/insert class based insult here.

People who come to live here, and those of us who lived overseas, see it here. It does exist.

As a PP said, it’s not just money and success

You have money = you must have been given it, be on an old boys network, been given an advantage in life. Or, you must have sold your granny and been an awful person to achieve it.

You are clever = you are lucky. You should be grateful you were born with those brains.

You are nice looking = you must be shallow, vain. It’s not all about looks you know.

Good at sports or music = why are those DC always picked? It’s not fair. It’s not about winning. Even though little Johnny spends every Saturday and Tues night freezing his arse off in winter playing football in the local league, it’s not fair on my DC who “wants” to be in the team. Even though Sarah practices the violin for 3 hours a night till her fingers bleed, it’s not fair she’s picked for solos.

Not projecting on last one, honest 😝

Nope, I haven't 'almost proved' your point.

is your point that these are the typical characteristics of British people and they are driving out Wealthy British people or are you referring to wealth created by non British people that are leaving? Wealthy British people who are upper class are definitely not leaving, this isn’t the case now and it wasn’t in the past.

Then why did you feel the need to comment on American politics and "attitudes"?

Are we just falling back on lazy stereotypes now?
‘Contacts’ only get someone so far, and contacts aren’t going to get them anywhere if they’re lacking in either education or experience in the relevant field. ‘Contacts’ may get someone a foot in the door, but that person needs to actually prove their worth.

I am Scottish born and bred.
I don't recognise any of this.
We celebrate success in many ways, however we also recognise aspects of someone's life which make it potentially more likely that they might be successful. Success can also be measured in different ways, not just in terms of financially and having stuff!

Brits might not pretend to celebrate success as much as Americans, but comparing to some other nations Brits are proper cheerleaders 😂

You don't see that 'getting a foot in the door' is a privilege some people won't get? Some people don't even get the opportunity to show their worth.

I think it’s an advantage but you don’t buy exam grades - that’s pure work.

Exam grades are purely the result of the work put in by the student?! No they are definitely not. They are the combined result of the intelligence/natural aptitude of the student, the quality of the teaching and the amount of support they get... and the student's effort. And the amount of work the student is actually able to manage will also be affected by things beyond their control. For example, I don't think my Y11 student who is a young carer for her disabled parent will have managed to do as much revision (or indeed homework over the past 5 years) as most of her classmates.

Well this is why I added the line, ‘this is not to say anyone could do it’. To deny ‘Contacts’ is not a thing in Britain and the immeasurable opportunities that brings is insulting to peoples’ intelligence.

Did I say that? No. I have no problem acknowledging that. What I am saying is that a person still needs to work hard even with those advantages.

How do you know the private school kid has more privilege than a state school child? It's not black and white.

Just as well I didn’t deny it then, isn’t it?

‘Contacts’ are a thing everywhere, and always have been. Ironically enough getting access to the elite schools/universities/jobs very much depended on contacts in the countries my parents were raised in. Both Communist ones, incidentally.

I don't think you're right.

It all depends on how you measure success, doesn't it? For too many people it seems to be 'Has loads of money = success'. And so people who have been born into money, comfort and privilege are seen as successful when in fact they have done nothing but get lucky. By the same token a young person coming from a hugely difficult background with zero opportunity, an unsupportive and/or abusive family and a nice helping of autism/dyslexia/mental ill health who works their arse off, gets decent GCSEs and ends up living a stable happy life with a decent job that makes ends meet is not seen as a success - when they have had to work so much harder to get where they are.

I know which one I admire more.

For countries with high income inequality, more of the total national income is held by a small number of people. It’s therefore basic maths that a small number of people will provide a large % of income from taxation as a small number of people hold a large % of the total national income. If income inequality is lowered then this won’t be the case.

Nobody is saying the person doesn't have to make effort/work hard, but they have to be given the opportunity to do that.