To think Brits dislike success?

[garlicmashpotatoes]

After many years of reading comments from posters on MumsNet and other forums, I get the impression that many Brits cannot stand to see people who have 'more than them' or achieve 'success' when they've worked hard to do so.

In America success is celebrated, and aspired to. Whereas in the UK it's often looked down upon.

Why?

Who is trying to stop anyone from improving themselves? You’re reaching there.

You used the word congratulate in your comment. So I used congratulate, and I also quite clearly said 'could' not 'should'.

@Floatingvoternolandinsight I think you have a real chip on your shoulder. I am sorry the aristocracy are snobs and do not accept you.

I have known four self-made millionaires in my life. One was a decent, honourable, intelligent man who got there through skill and hard work. The other three were horrible. I wouldn’t have trusted them an inch. They had the morals of a viper and would have sold rat poison to a baby if they could make a profit. They made their money by cheating people, cutting corners, and generally treading on those around them - but always within the law. One used to install windows. His stuff was cheap and shoddy, and in many cases the windows were badly installed or the handles snapped off. By then he’d moved on to something else. I absolutely resent their success. I wouldn’t resent someone getting a PhD in biochemistry, however, or a degree from Oxford in fine arts. Society benefits from people like that.

As for the difference between the US and U.K., I think it’s true, and it has a lot to do with size and space. The U.K. is a small, crowded island. We feel crushed and squashed in. Because of that, there’s a sense that there isn’t enough land to go around. There isn’t enough room for everyone to have a big house or a yacht or whatever. In the USA it’s the opposite. You have this feeling of vastness and expansion, this sense that if things aren’t working out here, you can just move on somewhere better.

That said, human nature doesn’t vary much. People resent their neighbour’s success because it makes them feel shit about themselves. That’s the real reason. It isn’t so much that John wants what Steve has got, but that John can’t bear feeling belittled by Steve’s success. I doubt it’s much different in Australia or California.

Yes, I think this is true especially because you can tell where someone’s from/possibly their class through the way they speak. I have a friend who is now a very successful real estate agent in a posh area of upstate New York, she says she’d never have been able to do the same in a similar area in the UK because of her accent, which Americans just hear as’British’.

@Floatingvoternolandinsight I can and do have empathy that achieved a lot despite many struggles and not the very best start. Especially when they stop there.

I do not have empathy when people use those achievements to look down on others, and start with name calling ,derision and self congratulatory bs like envy ,jealousy and hate.

Even more so, I have enough emotional intelligence to feel and think both . Well done for achieving so much, that is amazing and an inspiration. Too bad you(general you) are a twat.

@Cooper77 yup- I know many very well off people and as you say there are some who are talented and lovely people - however I also know plenty in business who are rich through being quite happy to shaft others , treat staffappallingly, bend the rules hugely, set companies up , borrow, take huge dividends and then shut it all down at a point it comes under scrutiny or stops being able to borrow or have the right connections in life to gain huge contracts - despite being rather second rate at what they do.

Chip? Project much? I don't go in for that aristocracy nonsense. If you can only see poor unlucky people and the aristocracy you may want to get out a bit more and expand that small mind.

If you say so.

We sound very similar! My school was so bad I ended up getting through A levels mostly on my own as well and then worked my way through uni. Just wondering how it works out for you in the family dynamic? I have the issue of somehow ending up being constantly put down for being successful. I've been told I've become a snob, but I don't really know what they expect, buy a cheaper house/cars/holidays to make them feel better? I really try not to talk about anything financial or act in any way snobby when I see them or suggest going to expensive places to eat, etc. I feel like it is just knowing that I can afford things they can't that annoys them but I can't help that!

Yes, so this is what is what is happening in my family! I worked hard, got through uni, got a well-paying career, my sibling dropped out without any qualification then luckily happened to fall into a good job paying about half what mine does, and yet it is the sibling who is constantly praised!

Brits disliking success starts in school. Think about how we treat the acedemically successful here, compared to many other countries which celebrate success. Kids who are doing exceptionally well in school are often bullied. Think about the way nerds are portrayed in popular culture - often ugly, bespectacled (ideally with braces), socially bumbling idiots.

This mindset then carries on through life, in part fuelled by the very British culture of "understatement", downplaying success and modesty being seen as a virtue, especially in women. Entire chapters in books deal with this mindset, for example Kate Fox's Watching the English (and the mindset does extend to Wales and at least parts of Scotland, too).

Then we have the whole dislike of showing success outwardly. We constantly have to be careful not to boast, which seems to include simply talking about monetary or job-related successes or using social media to "shove our lifestyle in their faces". The whole stereotypical concept of keeping up with the Joneses is built around a desire never to be outdone by those around us.

And all that invites bitchiness when someone does show success. Take MN. There is a thread on here about someone feeling annoyed or even threatened by someone else being obviously keen at work. Another about women's jealousy of each other (which many seem to deny, but I've seen it happen so many times). Another in which someone has lost weight and finds that friends have become colder towards her. My own, which was hijacked by someone with an obvious chip on their shoulder. All in the last day and a bit, and I'm sure there are many more.

I'm not from here, originally, and, having grown up in a different culture, I find it hard to understand why successes are not celebrated. References to luck, outside help etc. being the main drivers behind success - well, that is blantantly misleading. You can have all the help in the world shoved at you, but if you don't take it up and do something productive with it, you will not succeed. Even the element of luck itself, which is merely the ability to look for and take up opportunities as they come. And while the extent of those may differ, we all have those opportunities at some point in our lives.

I’m not British by birth, but I find the whole ‘geek’ thing odd as the complete opposite is the norm where I was born. I find it so odd when people don’t recognise hardwork or achievement, especially in a country where that is revered if it involves football, rugby etc.

If someone works hard and has done well people should see it as hard earned, no moaning they don’t have the same, or throwing a strop because their child didn’t win x, y and z.

Everyone should be able to be outwardly proud of hardwork and success.

Then we have the whole dislike of showing success outwardly. We constantly have to be careful not to boast, which seems to include simply talking about monetary or job-related successes or using social media to "shove our lifestyle in their faces".

Hmm, I'm not entirely sure this is true. Plenty of people love flashy German cars and I'd say we've never been more boastful going by the number of perfectly curated Instagram accounts and the ever increasing number of people trying to make a living by posting their enviable lifestyle online.

It's also cool to be a geek nowadays.

If you had grown up in Britain though, the politics of class comes into this and it isn’t just down to ‘luck’. If you have been made aware of those inequalities from birth so whether that be middle class parents like mine who came from working class backgrounds but were part of a movement to challenge the establishment and campaign for rights of the working classes to open up universities and educational opportunities for people that didn’t traditionally have them or you were from a working class families in industries that had collective representation to make life fairer for those who didn’t have opportunities that landed at their feet, you would very much understand how pervasive the class system was and is in determining that ‘British’ outlook.

I am not sure if it really matters whether the British have this attitude, it is what it is surely. Other countries will have characteristics that are frustrating and annoying to the outside world. It is about tolerating differences, I think part of the issue with this is not everyone wants to be the same, look the same, have the same attitudes as others around the world, maybe a backlash against being a global citizen which I think is causing more harm than it does good as there is no tolerance for different cultures anymore. Besides, who gets to decide what the perfect cultural outlook is? The U.S.A, France, China.. it doesn’t work does it!

Still a minority. A sizeable minority, I grant you, but the majority of people don't have "flash" (so they think) cars and aren't bragging on tik-tok/instagram. Most people are just "normal" and living pretty normal/average lives that fly under the radar.

Which is what I said. If you re-read what I wrote. You are determined to see the worst. Are you ok?

Passive aggressive- much!

Your depiction of MN 00s is completely inaccurate, it was left leaning, far more than it is now and wasn’t a place of predominantly very right wing posters.

This. Same shit on this thread I see.

You can be successful without celebrating it though you don’t need to rub peoples faces in it to demonstrate how successful you are. People don’t like having their noses rubbed in it but it’s rude to talk about money anyway.

Why can't people celebrate success whays wrong with taking a moment to so that. If people get rubbed up the wrong way thays on them. I'd rather join in and celebrate someone's successes then be bitter and jealous or feel like they should hide it.

I suppose it depends how you measure success really. If it’s about money and having more than the people around you that’s one kind of success. But it’s not the only kind of success and it’s possible to celebrate your successes without being crass about it.

I find this interesting. What do you consider rubbing people's noses in it?