To not make my son have his vaccine?

[Funkytuna]

Hello all
So my 13 year old (ADHD and Autistic) was recently supposed to have his HPV vaccine in school. He point blank refused so it was rescheduled for the may half term at the local clinic. However, he is still very much refusing to have the vaccine. I've explained what its for and how serious cancer is (not that he needs me to tbh). But he is so stubborn its unreal. How would other parents deal with this? Both my children have always been up to date on their vaccines and I want him to take his health seriously. That being said it is his body and I cant physically force him.

I don't think you can make him. The nurses aren't going to hold him down and vaccinate him if he's refusing. It also sounds from your OP like he's probably Fraser competent, so that would make it his choice anyway.

Does he have a needle phobia?

My DS hasn't had any vaccines since he was old enough to refuse. He has severe medical anxiety. He knows how serious the illnesses they protect you from are. But his anxiety is too bad.
It sucks. But I'm not going to force him.

I think it would help to understand why he's refusing it - is it the process of actually getting the vaccine or is it concerns about side effects or what's in it or how it's made etc etc. I think your first step is figuring that bit out and then trying to resolve that. I work with a few young people who are ND and they had concerns around vaccines so I got them to list their concerns and then we spoke to a gp about it and she took it all really seriously and gave them lots of good info and it helped? I'd also wonder if he's seeing anything online that is giving him false or misleading info?

Other than talking to him about why he is refusing it and helping him with those reasons eg if it's a needle phobia that you could go with him, he could take music, you could have a treat afterwards... But otherwise he's at an age where he can chose not to have it.

I feel your pain. DS refused HPV too. It took 5 adults to pin him down for his covid jab which he needed for foreign travel a few years back.
He isn't being naughty; his body goes into a FUCK NO state and he gets violent.

I don't think there's anything we can do. I just pray he doesn't get ill 😭

I mean the practical question here is is he Gillick competent? If he is then he can refuse and no one can stop him. If he isn't then I think the doctors can agree it's in his best interests and give it to him anyway.

Being Gillick competent essentially means being adequately able to weigh up the risks and benefits so there is no set age and the age for even a single child will vary from procedure to procedure depending on the complexity.

Male cancers associated with HPV are rare. Most men will clear the virus without any health problems. I would leave it up to him.

Thanks for your replies so far. Its a bit of a medical phobia in that he knows its going to be unpleasant and thinks its going to be painful. I've told him that the injection is very quick and only hurts for a second, however his arm may or may not be sore for a day or so after. I actually know if he just had it he'd be fine with the pain as he has a high pain threshold but his mind is amplifying it to be much worse than it actually will be.

I feel for him, it's really hard. I had a bad needle phobia growing up (not being able to sleep for weeks, endless crying and vomiting on the day, etc etc). I only pushed myself to get the vaccines as my mother would pile on the guilt and fear of something worse happening - which definitely did not help my health anxiety. She would usually trick me / not tell me it was going to happen, and once she got the doctor to come to our house unannounced - very much do not recommend!!

When I was around 20 something I decided to have therapy for the needle phobia and it is honestly the best thing I've ever done. It sorted the needle fear, and hugely helped with my health anxiety and confidence in general. It was a combination of CBT, and exposure therapy once a week for +/- 6 months. I imagine a practitioner with experience of ND patients would be best so they can tailor their approach.

I've also found these, but haven't tried them yet - https://www.buzzy4shots.co.uk/

Ask him what he remembers about having his baby vaccines.

You can get numbing gel. I found it helped my son psychologically to believe it wouldn't hurt.

I'm thinking numbing gel but maybe also some hypnobirthing style techniques and affirmation work? Would that be something you think he could engage with?

I wouldn’t say my 7 year old asd+adhd son was gillick competent, but when he screamed and ran away every time the nurse tried to do the flu nasal spray she said she wasn’t prepared to do it. I said can you if I hold him still? (Which I usually wouldn’t do but he is clinically vulnerable and has a genetic disorder so I really really wanted him to have it)- she said no.

There is no fixed age, but in practice it's the stage of a typical 13 year so he is unlikely to be at that point.
Children 12 and under - there is no lower age limit for Gillick competence or Fraser guidelines to be applied. It would rarely be appropriate or safe for a child to consent to advice/intervention/treatment without parental consent.

@S0livagant Healthcare professionals involved in treating head and neck cancers (those treating anal/rectal cancers as well) campaigned for years for boys to also receive the HPV vaccine. There were increasing numbers of HPV driven oral cancers being detected which is why so many of these healthcare professionals were paying to have their sons vaccinated as well prior to it being offered by the NHS.

In saying that there isn’t anything you can do to force him to have the vaccine and no doctor/nurse is going to hold him down to have the vaccine. Even if he isn’t Gillick competent no one is going to assess the risk of possible cancer in the future would outweigh the trauma and lasting fear of medical treatment by holding him down.

I think try and get him to articulate (or write down) what he is worried about but remember fears are not logical. I’d try and explore getting some help (not sure from where on the NHS) as he is likely to need medical tests/treatment at some point that will be more pressing so trying to get him happier now would be worth the time. Good luck I hope you find a solution.

I'm afraid you can't force him

I watched my cousin's deal with their dad going through a HPV related cancer and yet the youngest as far as I know is still refusing to have her HPV vaccine. She's seen the repercussions and her dad going through tough chemo so if anyone would have had the vaccine you think she would have....

@Funkytuna would he try the numbing cream? You could put it on him as a test run and he could poke the numb bit himself to see if it is working.

DS has had to have a fair few blood tests and developed a fear of the pain- but with the cream he said just felt like a tickle and he says he is totally relaxed about needing anymore now.

I don't remember anything before I was almost three. It's a bit different to 13.

Thought numbing cream was a great idea but he's still refusing :/

The nurse used the buzzy bee device at my son’s college, he’s ASD plus anxiety about anything like that. He didn’t feel any pain with it. There’s also numbing gels, ice packs, distraction techniques etc… which can be used too. My son hates the thought of anything like that, but he also has anxiety over being ill, a bit of a hypochondriac, so I just have to persuade him that the disease is worse than the immunisation. But anyway for him this Buzzy device worked brilliantly. It was the thought of being painful that he didn’t like rather than being immunised.

Is he demand avoidant?

Just tell him to suck it up it will be fine, when did these become children's decision.

Explain why it is important to have it. Whilst I doubt he'll be known to your son, the comedian Mark Steel is currently recovering from cancer caused by HPV, he talked about it on his podcast.

I think Gillick competence dates back to the 1980s

My five year old is needle phobic. Unfortunately he has a very serious illness which means he has to have needles every month. It's hell but he needs it to be healthy (and alive). I know it hard but you be the adult here. Bribery will work just fine the key, there will be something he wants