That women should not have to share changing rooms with men

[WandsOut]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13459927/NHS-chiefs-legal-action-female-nurses-changing-room-transgender.html

This is absolutely horrific and probably the first of many cases we will see now. Please read the article in full but this alone is appalling. The response by their HR should be noted because that is what is going to happen to every woman who complains about this if we keep allowing these fraudulent men to get away with what they want.

One of the nurses told The Mail on Sunday: 'We don't feel safe because we strip down to our underwear and [the individual] doesn't just stay by his locker. 'He walks around the changing room in his boxer shorts.'
Another nurse said she was 'close to tears' during one incident in the changing room.
She said: 'I was rummaging in my bag trying to find my lanyard and keys for the locker when a man's voice behind me said, 'Are you not getting changed yet?' 'I found my keys and opened my locker and I was asked again, 'Are you not getting changed yet?'.'
The woman, who was sexually abused as a child, has posttraumatic stress disorder and struggles to be alone around men. She said: 'He stood there, two metres away from me, with a scrub top on and with tight black boxer shorts with holes in them and asked a third time whether I was getting changed yet.
'Flight or fight mode kicked in but I felt glued to my seat, I could not move. 'My hands started to sweat. I was petrified and felt sick and began hyperventilating.'
In March, 26 nurses wrote to management saying that the transgender nurse 'has made no secret' of the fact that 'he has stopped taking female hormones and is trying to inseminate his female partner'.
AIBU to suggest NOW is the time to wake up, en masse and stop allowing BE KIND to be a mantra that allows predatory men access to women at their most vulnerable.

It is fascinating that a large set of posts, by all of us, regarding the phrase ‘engendered souls’ simply vanished. Not noted as deleted, just vanished.

This was after I attributed it to ‘Britain’s greatest 20th c descriptive author’ and said that everyone mocking me for it had to own up to attacking a great author or accept that they were making a personal attack. Most curious.

Also someone was goading me about whether one could self identify as African American and posted links. One of the people had confessed to mental illness.

The other had received pre-sympathy here for presumably experiencing racism as a child even with white parents. I would agree with that, except it wasn’t difficult to find reliable reports that she was born as a white, blue eyed blonde with straight hair. She drastically changed appearance in adulthood.

All of those posts have also vanished with no mention

I have never suggested making policy based on a few cases

@poetryandwine

As men sadly commit equally repulsive crimes in greater numbers, I am not sure what the point of this list is.

Statistics not your strong point? Statistically Transwomen are incarcerated at higher rates for sexual offences than other males.

Given how small the population of transwomen is 187 offences is a LOT.

You repeatedly said that men who have had cosmetic surgery and taken medication have earned the right to be considered women and you welcome them into women's spaces. You repeatedly said that you count those males as women. Are you now saying you don't think those males should be in women's single sex spaces? That's sort of where the thread started!?

187 offences with only some by trans women, across many countries over 44 years, is not my definition of ALOT.

No statistician has devised an effective way of counting the true number of trans women imprisoned as many are not in prison long enough for a case study. This is readily searchable

I don't know what this post is about. I haven't asked for any of my posts to be deleted and I'm not aware any of them have been. You can talk about engendered souls as much you like as far as I'm concerned, as long as you don't expect me to believe they exist or for policy to be based on that niche religious belief.

The posts about Dolezal are still there, and attacking the authorial skill of Jan Morris hasn't featured on the thread afaik. Pointing out that Morris was an abusive parent and a misogynist has, but is posting Morris' daughter's experience of her father and her childhood a personal attack?

Nothing had been deleted since Morris was brought into the conversation.

Poetry can come and agree with me and say that's what she meant when she said deleted, you know that other definition of deleted that means something different from that which is commonly understood

All the posts are still there. The phrase was 'gendered souls', not 'engendered souls' so perhaps you were using the wrong search term.

Also I wasn't goading you by posting those links. You said, 'This is so far into the realm of the hypothetical that I find it boring'. I was demonstating that it was not hypothetical.

@poetryandwine you say, 'One of the people had confessed to mental illness.'

What do you think the rate of mental health issues is among people who identify as trans?

Also, what do you mean by this - 'The other had received pre-sympathy here for presumably experiencing racism as a child even with white parents.'

As a women, I wonder if I tried to go into the men's changing rooms in say Marks & Spencer whether I would be turned away. I wouldn't be claiming to be anything other than a women. If so, would I have a case to claim sex discrimination?

If they let anyone who identifies as a women into the women's changing rooms then they are not making use of the single sex exemptions in the Equality Act so they can't claim to be using them for the Men's changing rooms. If single sex exemptions don't apply then why what would their defence be for not letting me in the Men's changing rooms. If they did say that the single sex exemptions applied to the Men's changing room then would there be case for sex discrimination as they only apply the single sex exemptions for the Men's changing rooms and not the women's

I am no expert on MH problems among trans people.

A PP had expressed that Rachel D would have experienced racism growing up with dark skin even if she had white parents. A reasonable belief until you learn that good sources say she only darkened her skin as an adult

What has the shade of Dolezal's skin got to do with the price of fish? She's a white person who identifies as a black person, something she is not. Her relevance to the thread is solely that her form of identifying as something she's not got her (rightly imho) sacked and vilified, whereas males identifying as women are lauded and pandered to.

You think some men count as women. Do you think some white people count as black people? If not, what's the difference?

You guys have inundated me with many topics. Turnabout is fair play

I made a point of back in 2018 using the mens changing room in m and s. I was allowed with no problems. The woman 'manning' the desk there did a double take then said oh yes of course you can use it.

I walked through since 2018, as a shortcut, not to buy anything, and all the changing rooms now just have "changing room" for a sign, no sex mentioned.

If I were to buy any clothing from them ever again, I would deliberately use the one in the mens section. But I wont ever buy anything from them .

I haven't been in a M&S for ages so didn't realise that they now just call them changing rooms. I wonder if anything would be said to a man, who says he's a man, going into the changing room in the lingerie section.

Sorry. This quote was in reference to my question about whether you agree with @Winnading ’s warning to me that using the abbreviation ‘TW’ can get one banned.

So why do you think RD is right and trans women are wrong?

I

You don't engage in good faith at all

YOU said "oh I don't do hypotheticals" when presented with the idea that it would be BAD for someone to pass themselves off as black even they weren't.

And now you're asking why people think it's okay?

Pull the other one

I am asking her to apply her standards for me to herself before I answer her, in the interest of saving time

I also want her to answer my previous question, as she has been extremely demanding of me

Christ if people want to save time, maybe turn off your Mums Net and do something more constructive instead.

Somewhere on this thread someone mentioned Primark porn so I did a quick Google. These are the first results that come up. Horrifying!

What? I specifically said Dolezal was (rightly imho) sacked and vilified for identifying as something she is not. How have you got me saying she was right, from that? If you are going to outright say I posted the opposite of what I posted, then you are clearly not posting in good faith.

If we are going to say that people making honest mistakes are not posting in good faith, there have been dozens of posts made in bad faith against me. Do you want me to assume that of your cohort?

We agree on RD and if you care to reread the post where I first described her childhood appearance you will see that I so there.

I think she is like men who do not suffer from gender dysphoria, but use the label of trans women to further other goals of their own. Some of which are repulsive