That women should not have to share changing rooms with men

[WandsOut]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13459927/NHS-chiefs-legal-action-female-nurses-changing-room-transgender.html

This is absolutely horrific and probably the first of many cases we will see now. Please read the article in full but this alone is appalling. The response by their HR should be noted because that is what is going to happen to every woman who complains about this if we keep allowing these fraudulent men to get away with what they want.

One of the nurses told The Mail on Sunday: 'We don't feel safe because we strip down to our underwear and [the individual] doesn't just stay by his locker. 'He walks around the changing room in his boxer shorts.'
Another nurse said she was 'close to tears' during one incident in the changing room.
She said: 'I was rummaging in my bag trying to find my lanyard and keys for the locker when a man's voice behind me said, 'Are you not getting changed yet?' 'I found my keys and opened my locker and I was asked again, 'Are you not getting changed yet?'.'
The woman, who was sexually abused as a child, has posttraumatic stress disorder and struggles to be alone around men. She said: 'He stood there, two metres away from me, with a scrub top on and with tight black boxer shorts with holes in them and asked a third time whether I was getting changed yet.
'Flight or fight mode kicked in but I felt glued to my seat, I could not move. 'My hands started to sweat. I was petrified and felt sick and began hyperventilating.'
In March, 26 nurses wrote to management saying that the transgender nurse 'has made no secret' of the fact that 'he has stopped taking female hormones and is trying to inseminate his female partner'.
AIBU to suggest NOW is the time to wake up, en masse and stop allowing BE KIND to be a mantra that allows predatory men access to women at their most vulnerable.

I said post deleted and possibly thread deleted.

Why did you choose to warn me and no one else? The abbreviation has been used many times on this thread

And thanks for the clarification

@poetryandwine
"I think she is like men who do not suffer from gender dysphoria, but use the label of trans women to further other goals of their own."

But if Rachel Dolezal or someone like her actually felt some genuine dysphoria about her ethnicity, then by your logic, she should be treated as not only the ethnicity of her choice, but given extra sympathy for having to face the additional hurdles and prejudice of bring trans black, where others have the privilege of being cis-African American.

So we finally get to the point.

You admit some men (number unknown) will use trans as a decoy.

How do we tell those using the label with bad intent from those with good intent?

After all we just want to pee and be on our way. We dont have time to or want to interrogate every man to see his intentions for us.

My post about using initials was not solely aimed at you, although I can see why it looked that way.

No statistician has devised an effective way of counting the true number of trans women imprisoned as many are not in prison long enough for a case study. This is readily searchable

Is it? Perhaps you could post a link if it's so readily available?

In the meantime here are some links disputing what you assert.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/02/24/government-figures-70-per-cent-of-transgender-prisoners-are/

torontosun.com/news/national/study-finds-nearly-45-of-trans-women-inmates-convicted-of-sex-crimes#:~:text=Article%20content,behind%20bars%20for%20sexual%20offences.

macdonaldlaurier.ca/gender-diverse-prisoners-and-sex-based-patterns-of-offending/

I’ve never doubted your first claim, or claimed to have the answer. I don’t believe I’ve seen a viable one on this thread. It’s not my job to find it. it’s your issue and thus your job. My understanding from other MumsNetters is that you’ve rejected many good women with good ideas over the years, so best of luck with that

Does anyone has any good ideas about how we make changing rooms and other single sex spaces actually single sex again?

Me personally? Or are you doing what you accused me of?

It's not my issue, its many womens issue. I want single sex spaces back. It's not that big an ask.

What are these good ideas?

You as a group, the problem is far too vast fir one person.

I have not been on MumsNet long enough to know and the survivors seem to wish to forget about it

I will give info below, I can’t link from this phone.

Background: According to statista, the average custodial sentence in 2022-23 was
20-21 months. You are ordinarily eligible for parole after serving half your sentence, so on average in under a year.

Transgender people don’t come up for case conference, so aren’t formally counted unless they have a GRC, until after a year of imprisonment.

The Ministry of Justice does a prison census only once a year.

MoJ has discussed publicly that for both of these reasons the trans population in prison is likely to be undercounted. In terms of crime types, the data pool is so small that it is difficult to deal with statistically. (This is the for same reason that if you toss a fair coin 10 times I wouldn’t bet against any outcome, but if you toss a fair coin 10,000 times it is a good bet you will get pretty close to 5000 heads)

Two sources discussing this are the BBC Fact Checker article ‘How many transgender inmates are there’? of 13 Aug 2018 and the Staffordshire University blog post ‘Transgender prison population forms toxic debate’ of 18 Jan 2019. I cannot link easily on this phone

PS for anyone who cares why you need a larger sample size than you all have offered in order to generate robust statistics, it is a theorem called The Law of Large Numbers

Is anyone else wondering whether it's wine o'clock at some posters' houses today? We've gone from illogical to incoherent.

I have some evidence to support that but unfortunately I can't link from this phone

It’s as incoherent as Starmer saying some women have penises. 🙈

Which part is incoherent? Ignore the name of s famous theorem if you like.

Just read the articles. They are short and clear

Have you noticed that he always talks about safe spaces rather than single sex spaces

Of course. Or even safe spaces for women. Totally meaningless. Because labours definition of women, includes men. 🤮

It's like Primark who announced they were reintroducing women only changing rooms following complaints but it turns out that their definition of women includes men

Here's something else short and clear:

Woman = adult human female

🤯🤬.

I’ve read a large number of links recommended by your lot. I will re-engage when your lot return the courtesy

'Your lot' 😂

What lot is that then? Those who understand basic biology?

Your links (which aren't links) aren't relevant to the simple fact that men aren't women, cannot become women by any means, and don't belong in women's single sex spaces.

Transgender people don’t come up for case conference, so aren’t formally counted unless they have a GRC, until after a year of imprisonment.

This is not true.

Local case boards must be held within 14 days of entering custody if a pre-sentencing board has not already been held. The time limit was raised from 3 days after Karen White because it was decided that 3 days did not allow sufficient time to gather the necessary information for safeguarding.

Even before a case board is held, at first point of contact, legal gender is determined and recorded and arrangements must be in place 'to provide individuals with an opportunity to declare the gender with which they identify, which may be different to the sex assigned at birth. Self-disclosed gender identity is also to be recorded (in addition to the legally recognised gender where this is different)'

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-care-and-management-of-individuals-who-are-transgender