Manipulated by women that “can’t”

[Mistressofpemberly]

Professional in my fifties with friends and colleagues of same age.
I’m increasing noticing that I’m expected to fill the gap at work and in friendships by women of my age who have fixed ideas about what they can and can’t do. They are all high flying professionals in responsible roles. They are all single.

The feeling that I’m being imposed on has been creeping up on me. I have had a bit of a light bulb moment and recognised that their behaviour is manipulative and I feel that I am being controlled.
AIBU in this? Is it a ‘thing’. Anyone else seeing the same? Examples following….

I think there is an increasing tendency for people to reframe “I don’t want to” as “I have a special unarguable reason why I can’t”. It’s quite often bullshit, but it excuses people pleasers from the unpleasantness of saying no, and makes it difficult for others to challenge. It’s part of the general cultural shift towards everyone being special and different, whereas in fact, everyone is different, but very few people are special. I’ve made my peace with the fact that I am deeply ordinary, and that is perfectly ok and normal.

Whereas I'd go and think, 'Oh hell, I don't really like blue cheese that much but I am going to get this down, just maybe not eat any seconds and have plenty of bread to mute the taste. And actually maybe this will be a really good type of blue cheese.

Whereas I’d go “I don’t like blue cheese, I’ll just have the bread and not moan that other people haven’t accommodated my preferences”.

I recognise this. And as a previous posted said it's definitely them prioritising something else. I would take it as a sign OP that they don't want to participate in the activity/thing you have suggested rather than not being able to. As I've gotten older I much enjoy time with those who I really value. Would I drive in the dark for a friend who im not close to? No. Would I drive in the dark to see my best friend or daughter? Yes. Ps I hate driving in the dark and find it difficult.

Are you a PA and it's your job to make their lives smoother? I can't imagine professional people behaving like this in any other context.

Same. I'm late 50s. Night driving has definitely become more difficult in the past few years. Mum also gave up driving at night in her 50s. I will do short journeys if it's essential. No problem with motorways, but my son, who is in his 20s, hates motorway driving and will try to find alternative routes.

It's not that they can't, it's that they don't want to. There's a difference and if you learn to do it too you won't find yourself stepping into 'the gap' as you call it.

I don't find this with women I know or work with because I don't let their choices dictate my life.

For example

• can’t Find their way from a to b even if it is only a 5 minute walk - meaning that I’m am expected to find them and take them there like a carer

In this instance you need to use your words and say, 'I'm not doing it because I don't want to'. Once you've done it a few times you will find it easy and not be such a pushover.

Sorry I think I might need a bit more context. Are these things part of your job? If not then surely the answer is just not to get involved, like “I can’t find my way from A to B,” “oh that’s odd” or just say nothing,“oh her perfume’s a bit strong”, “is it, I hadn’t noticed, maybe you could find someone to open a window [CHANGE SUBJECT OR WALK OFFF]. It’s fine for these people to have boundaries but it’s also fine for you to have them too.

I think unless this is a specific part of your role just politely decline to help.

By the way this is not just women- it’s men too- I know many intelligent, professional men in their 50s who would probably cease to function and starve to death if their wives and PAs left simultaneously.

No. I'm a woman in my mid 50s and I don't recognise myself or any of my friends in your examples. All entirely capable and willing to do all these things and more unaided, and wouldn't dream of 'manipulating' someone into helping.
It would be ridiculous to try. Having lived more than half a century its blatantly obvious the majority of us will have wisdom, skills and experience to spare, so be more than able for these every day tasks.
I'm sure you'll get people agreeing though, because it can be pretty much open season on middle aged women, and no doubt the usual agist/sexist types will be crawling from the woodwork to add anecdotes to support you.

Too bad...
I can't see a bloody thing at night, I tried different pair of glasses, it's not helping. I get blinded even when I am not the driver, but then it matters less.

I can't stand people who drive when they really shouldn't, so each to their own.

Perfume on an airplane is bloody awful.

Is it your job to act to make their lives easier or are these jobs cropping up outside your role?

I do understand that it’s annoying when someone says they can’t do something so someone else will have to.
As I’ve got older I have become so nervous about motorway driving that I could be dangerous so I don’t do it. I do get to places under my own steam via train and taxis though and avoid inconveniencing people.
I would suggest OP that you don’t jump into helping and just assume they will either find a way or miss out.
I do know someone who has an allergic reaction to being near perfume. I think it’s best to assume people are genuine rather than manipulative but you’re under no responsibility to solve their problems.

It sounds like a mixture of things going on. In general, people become more safety conscious, more risk averse and less tolerant of people's anti social habits as they get older. They are also better able to assert their own preferences. So it's natural that they will no longer be willing to do things they feel unsafe with, for example. It would be better, though, if your colleagues also took the next step, which is "I won't be able to attend unfortunately because I'm not comfortable driving in the dark" etc instead of the whole "can't" malarkey.

I don't know about manipulation but my example is asking a client (woman in her 40s who has a professional job) to print something that's necessary for them to aid in the work I do with them (in their home) to be told 'I don't know how to use the printer, I have to wait for my husband'. Wilfully ditzy.

People who say they can't when they mean font want to are infuriating.

In my 50s I feel like I'm properly independent for the first time in my life and would get on an do all those things in my personal life.

In my professional life I've also got much better at asking people who work for me to do their job and make mine easier! If my assistant can save me some time or make things run more smoothly for me, I'll ask them for what I need, whereas once I'd have wanted to look so capable I did it all myself.

Finding driving harder at night as you get older is a real thing, applied to both sexes. Tbh I think it's a form of ageism to not recognise genuine issues related to getting older.

But 'can’t Find their way from a to b even if it is only a 5 minute walk' ..fgs can't you tell them to try using google maps or similar in walking mode?

Your examples sound like you're a PA or similar job role and these people you're talking about are senior management?

I've worked as a PA in the past and all those tasks were part of the job.

My experience was it tended to be men, but that's because the more senior positions tended to be men where I worked although there were a few women too.

Sometimes it was a case of senior job role person wanting things done for them just the sake of asserting their seniority in the workplace, other times it was simply they were in very demanding roles and that's why they delegated to their employees. It was part of the job of PA.

The perfume thing. A male manager had an allergy so all staff members were asked not to wear perfume in the office.

Separately, if it's friends rather than workplace, perhaps instead of complaining about people you supposedly care about on MN, either just say no if you feel it's something you don't want to do for them, or have some empathy and awareness that you won't know everything going on in their lives.

Everyone (male or female, all ages) lacks confidence in some things, but also being single doesn't mean they don't have things going on in their home lives. Caring for elderly parents or health issues or whatever.

I’m with you on this. They make me feel nauseous and I will be sick.

Surely if you are working on their behalf, you should be printing any materials/ posting it out to them and not giving them a job to sort?

Like pps say they're entitled to have their feelings about what they are capable of, or what they like doing or not.

What is under your control is the ability to say no, or deflect them, or stop problem-solving for them.

Or just avoid them if it's too much for you! You're allowed to have boundaries too.

I agree I don't think it's an age or gender thing. All people can be timewasters.

However, I do think that sexism means people feel women's time is free or women are "easier" to ask (amplify if young or non-white).

You'll see people refusing to waste the Big Important Tall Mans time with a small question, but they'll be happy to ask the woman.

(I was reading a textbook for a final exam in my local green space, and some cute little kiddies asked if I could help them with some video project... obviously requiring I step out of something I was clearly involved in.

There were LOADS of other people there.

I was brief and polite when I turned them down, but of course "Go ask the nice lady as she is less likely to be nasty so you can waste her time" is a common trope)

A lot of people will ignore a woman if she says something or requires respectful attention, but she'll suddenly become "visible" when there's a shit menial task to do. There's ways to push back on this.

I've noticed at current work, weird men like wasting my time with nonsense requests so they can feel important as they've made me go out of my way for them.

It's not about the question itself, it's just a dominance or control thing.

Since I started WFH more, I ignore emails that aren't critical, no-one cares, if they did I'd plead ignorance - life is peaceful ;-)

If they get too annoying or a drain, I would just detach.

So many people can’t drive at night for so many reasons whether it be on a motorway or any other road. Someone choosing not to drive at night isn’t affecting your life so why let it bother you? What an odd post.

Then you've never met me.

I've had 'no perfume' as a reasonable adjustment in multiple work places. It's not a rare request.

Oh OP I absolutely get what you are saying .

It's like some sort of universal curse . Where women have found their voice at last but seem to have forgotten that imposing their needs and wants often impacts those of us who aren't so prescriptive.

The 'I don't drive if it's raining/snowing/too hot/cold /on motorways/country roads /when there's an r in the month brigade. .. however they expect you to AND to go out of your way to give them a lift.

I only work 7am -3pm despite a flexible work policy that is meant to work both ways.. thus nearly avoiding 4 hours of customer facing time. (For us plans to do) .. and no . Not health or child care related just because that's how they 'work' .. and managers too wet to take them to task.

I will say that as I have gotten older, I have gotten much better at standing up for myself. If plans in personal or professional situations are going to make me absolutely miserable, I now speak up. For personal, I will just bow out. They can go on their merry way without me. For professional, I accommodate difficult, but truly awful, I say something and get it changed.

I had someone try to schedule an all-day meeting that would have forced me to leave my house at 2am. The company didn’t want to pay for a hotel. I was quoting Danny Glover from Lethal Weapon pretty much immediately on that one. We compromised and did the meeting online. When I was just starting out, I would have been too scared and timid to put my foot down, plus the sleep deprivation would not have impacted me as much.

Architect, 50s here
I can think of quite a few male colleagues that are just like your examples

including,
can’t drive to site can I pick them up ooh and can someone pick up their steel toe cap shoes from the office as they forgot them
can’t go into work unless someone drives them there and back….I know🤯
does bugger all when working from home ( single male and married, no kids )
can’t flush the loo or close the door after 💩
expects others to make them tea never offers to do the same for the group

me me me, my design, no no one helped…..cf grabbing praise for work they didn’t do!

To
conclude
Its not just a woman thing
Its a bullying, controlling, entitled and lazy thing.