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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Creepy neighbour - thoughts!?

406 replies

Toebeanzornottoebeanz · 21/05/2024 07:13

Hello! I had a strange encounter with a neighbour last week which made me feel very uncomfortable. I’m sure I’m right, but my mind will always minimise things/mitigate for people so I wanted to run the situation past others and see if your thoughts support mine!

Thursday, 1pm there’s a knock on my door, I don’t answer, they knock again, this time louder. I look out the window and see that it’s a fairly new neighbour who I’ve only met once or twice in passing and never really spoken to. He lives with his girlfriend and his child. I open the door and he says he’s sorry to bother me but do I have any sugar, he’s run out and really needs a coffee. I laugh and say “are you serious” because it seemed cliche. He says yes so I say ok sure and turn to go into the house and grab him some, except he follows me in and into my kitchen. He had brought a coffee with him and then helped himself opening drawers to find himself a spoon. He then said how it’s cool that we both work from home, what time do I have my lunches usually, suggesting essentially that we could have lunches at the same time. He told me he likes to draw and saw some of my artwork, then suggested we should do some drawing together sometime. All questions after this were the type that enabled him to get close and have physical contact - I like your rings, folllowed by holding my hand and leaning in close to look at them, I like your tattoos, followed by holding my wrist and arm and running his hand over them, what size are your ears stretched to, can I have a look, followed by moving in to look closely at my ears. After a while I said sorry you need to go, I have work to do, do you want to take some sugar with you - he said no that’s fine I’ll go to the shop later - the shop which is less than a minutes walk from his house. I thought the whole thing was weird but gave him the benefit of the doubt that maybe he is very over-familiar and lacking in self-awareness, and maybe he genuinely needed some sugar.

3pm - there’s a knock at the door again, and it’s him again. I go down there, he says sorry can I grab some more sugar, I say fine and again he follows me into the house, again helping himself to a spoon. The front door has been left open, I say I need to make sure my cat hasn’t run out and he tells me I can close the door. I do this so my cat doesn’t run out and then immediately start heaping sugar into a bowl so he can take it and just get out, in the middle of doing this he says hey can I look at your tattoo again and takes hold of my wrist, runs his hand over the tattoo again and slowly up my forearm. At this point I am kind of in a corner and I panic, pull away and say I really need to get on so here’s your sugar. I then march quickly to the front door to get it open and on the way out, he says by the way - you don’t need to tell your partner I came round. I say he already knows you’ve been here.

This is all really creepy, right!?

So I tell my partner all of this and how uncomfortable I felt and he’s furious. The next day, he sees my neighbour’s partner in the street and asks her for a word, says her boyfriend made me feel very uncomfortable in our house yesterday and can we have our sugar pot back. She is baffled - why was he in our house and why does he have our pot. He explains, she goes into their house and 20 minutes later, they are both on the doorstep and he is very politely apologising for making me feel uncomfortable and asking me to explain what he did that made me feel that way. This gets my back up straight away because he knows full well, and I tell him so. He denies saying that I didn’t need to tell my partner and tells me I’m overreacting. I tell him he’s gaslighting me, and that he’s a creep. I then ask his girlfriend if they had sugar at home yesterday - she tells me yes, they did. I tell him I have no idea what his intentions were but they did not originate in a place of honesty, he had sugar at home, an open door is not an invitation in, and his behaviour in my house/towards me was unnerving. I apologised to his partner because it can’t have been nice having someone stand there and call their fella a creep.

I’m right, right!!? I’m sure I am, but I’m such an overthinker, I’m overthinking myself into thinking I’ve gone overboard..

OP posts:
SpongeBobSquarePantaloons · 21/05/2024 11:57

Of course you're right! What a weirdo.

Toebeanzornottoebeanz · 21/05/2024 11:58

tellmewhenthespaceshiplandscoz · 21/05/2024 11:55

@PremiumListing I think this comment in your post nails it for me -

He did lots of micro tests on you, then and he progressed to interfering with your body.

Well done for how you handled it OP. And don't listen to those questioning why you didn't do anything more defensive at the time. Fight/Flight/Freeze is very real and I think this plus the absolute unexpected shock that he would waltz in and immediately start knocking boundaries over would be extremely alarming. Plus a bit of you was probably thinking "WTF - is this actually happening?".

And a man like this knows this is happening in your head and absolutely capitalises on this disorientation.

Fuck I would have been extremely shaken.

Well done to your partner too for having your back.

Thank you so much ❤️

OP posts:
tellmewhenthespaceshiplandscoz · 21/05/2024 11:59

Sturnidae · 21/05/2024 11:52

Fight, flight, freeze and fawn. You instinctively fawned to him to keep yourself safe. He's a disgusting creep and I'm glad you're able to feel angry at him for it now, but please do not feel angry at yourself. Your instincts kicked in to keep you safe in the moment, now you are in a position to evaluate and work out how to manage any future interactions with this creep.

I've not come across fawn as a response before and can absolutely see that being one. And probably in some situations unique to women? Maybe.

Sturnidae · 21/05/2024 12:02

Toebeanzornottoebeanz · 21/05/2024 11:53

Thank you ❤️ also I have actually never heard - freeze, fawn - before and this just makes so much sense. I can see that “fawn” is always my response to a threat, but to know it is recognised as a stress response will definitely help me in not blaming myself for it!!

Edited

I am also a fawner, I heard about this from MN a good few years ago and it makes so much sense. Rape Crisis use "friend" instead, which covers both calling to a nearby friend/bystander and/or "befriending" the danger and appealing to their good senses.

https://rapecrisis.org.uk/get-help/tools-for-victims-and-survivors/understanding-your-response/fight-or-flight/#:~:text=The%20'fight%20or%20flight'%20response,fight'%20or%20'flight'.

I get blaming yourself though, it took me a very long time to forgive myself for some of the circumstances I've been in when I've fawned, victim blaming is so ingrained in us that we do it to ourselves despite 'knowing better' so to speak.

Catsmere · 21/05/2024 12:03

Toebeanzornottoebeanz · 21/05/2024 11:48

Yes she is mostly! They only go out in the back garden and only when we’re at home. I actually have 2 cats but one is very antisocial/wary so was hiding upstairs (I should have taken his lead!) and I wasn’t worried about him making a run for it, the other was downstairs and loves to bolt out the front if she can.

I'm glad to hear they're inside when you're not there!

IncompleteSenten · 21/05/2024 12:05

Toebeanzornottoebeanz · 21/05/2024 11:45

Thank you! His girlfriend was very quiet, watching his reactions at times, head down and listening mostly. She was nodding her head in agreement when I was highlighting that it is not normal to follow a woman you don’t know into her house while she’s alone etc etc.. he only really spoke a couple of times after asking me to outline what he did to make me feel uncomfortable - this was to tell me I was overreacting, to deny saying that I didn’t need to tell my partner he’d been round, to tell me he has no interest in me and to tell his partner that he couldn’t find the sugar, after she confirmed that they did in fact have sugar at home. He was mostly eyes fixed, staring me down. I think she could see how weird it all was, she didn’t once try to defend him, not even when I lost it and simply declared him to be a “f*ing creep”.

I strongly suspect he brought her round thinking he could gaslight and intimidate you into agreeing with him that he did nothing wrong.
This imo is likely to be because this is far from the first time he's behaved like this

He wanted to convince her you were lying so he could then gaslight her about this and previous incidents.

You, (and fucking well done for this) totally scuppered this by refusing to follow his minimising and rewriting of what he did and not being scared into submission by his crazy eye routine.

Toebeanzornottoebeanz · 21/05/2024 12:08

Sturnidae · 21/05/2024 12:02

I am also a fawner, I heard about this from MN a good few years ago and it makes so much sense. Rape Crisis use "friend" instead, which covers both calling to a nearby friend/bystander and/or "befriending" the danger and appealing to their good senses.

https://rapecrisis.org.uk/get-help/tools-for-victims-and-survivors/understanding-your-response/fight-or-flight/#:~:text=The%20'fight%20or%20flight'%20response,fight'%20or%20'flight'.

I get blaming yourself though, it took me a very long time to forgive myself for some of the circumstances I've been in when I've fawned, victim blaming is so ingrained in us that we do it to ourselves despite 'knowing better' so to speak.

Thanks so much for sharing. Just knowing this is a help both in this instance and when I think about instances from the past.

OP posts:
crochetcatsknitting · 21/05/2024 12:09

My god OP. That is horrific. Terrifying.

DH and I think you need to speak to the police (I read your post to him). I really think you need to, for yourself and others. He was way too comfortable doing that and that in itself is very scary.

Definitely get a chain and ring doorbell and definitely warn the other women in the street.

That comment he made about not telling your partner he was there could be 'keep this between us so we can have a secret affair'.

However, I think he probably sensed you were hustling him out the door on the second occasion, realised you were onto him, and was warning/threatening you to say nothing.

Only you can sense if I'm right, but the way you say he was staring you down could also be him trying to tell you, with forceful stare, to shut up.

It may be his gf challenged him and he said, let's go over there and sort this out, banking on a knowing stare to make you sure you don't drop him in it. If so, that gamble failed.

The fact his girlfriend said nothing really bothers me. I feel she's probably been in this situation before, is not surprised by this.

So please tell the police and ask them if the women in your street need warning, or if he has history of this and should he be visited by the police. Also, if he does try anything threatening when he sees you on your own, that you have already logged this incident so they know his details mean nothing.

I don't think you did anything wrong here. What matters most is you emerged unhurt and forwarned so what you did actually worked. Had you confronted him in your kitchen, who knows what might have happened next? Had you refused him entry aggressively, who knows what he might have tried next.

I know that women are conditioned to be nice, but I think sometimes that we intuitively understand being nice is a way to stop a situation escalating and we do it to keep safe.

I am so horrified by this post. I really hope his gf is a mumsnetter and sees this and leaves him. Please speak your the police.

Toebeanzornottoebeanz · 21/05/2024 12:14

IncompleteSenten · 21/05/2024 12:05

I strongly suspect he brought her round thinking he could gaslight and intimidate you into agreeing with him that he did nothing wrong.
This imo is likely to be because this is far from the first time he's behaved like this

He wanted to convince her you were lying so he could then gaslight her about this and previous incidents.

You, (and fucking well done for this) totally scuppered this by refusing to follow his minimising and rewriting of what he did and not being scared into submission by his crazy eye routine.

I agree - thank you! ❤️

OP posts:
Toebeanzornottoebeanz · 21/05/2024 12:18

crochetcatsknitting · 21/05/2024 12:09

My god OP. That is horrific. Terrifying.

DH and I think you need to speak to the police (I read your post to him). I really think you need to, for yourself and others. He was way too comfortable doing that and that in itself is very scary.

Definitely get a chain and ring doorbell and definitely warn the other women in the street.

That comment he made about not telling your partner he was there could be 'keep this between us so we can have a secret affair'.

However, I think he probably sensed you were hustling him out the door on the second occasion, realised you were onto him, and was warning/threatening you to say nothing.

Only you can sense if I'm right, but the way you say he was staring you down could also be him trying to tell you, with forceful stare, to shut up.

It may be his gf challenged him and he said, let's go over there and sort this out, banking on a knowing stare to make you sure you don't drop him in it. If so, that gamble failed.

The fact his girlfriend said nothing really bothers me. I feel she's probably been in this situation before, is not surprised by this.

So please tell the police and ask them if the women in your street need warning, or if he has history of this and should he be visited by the police. Also, if he does try anything threatening when he sees you on your own, that you have already logged this incident so they know his details mean nothing.

I don't think you did anything wrong here. What matters most is you emerged unhurt and forwarned so what you did actually worked. Had you confronted him in your kitchen, who knows what might have happened next? Had you refused him entry aggressively, who knows what he might have tried next.

I know that women are conditioned to be nice, but I think sometimes that we intuitively understand being nice is a way to stop a situation escalating and we do it to keep safe.

I am so horrified by this post. I really hope his gf is a mumsnetter and sees this and leaves him. Please speak your the police.

Thank you - I agree - I think he sensed that I was no longer “fawning” and that I was moving to get him gone as quickly as I could and realising that he had been an absolute weirdo, he didn’t fancy the repercussions that might come from me telling my partner.

OP posts:
SerenityNowInsanityLater · 21/05/2024 12:25

Goodness. I haven't read the whole thread but most of it and I feel shaky on your behalf, OP.
I had this happen twice in my life; one neighbour tried to sexually assault me in my kitchen (he did exactly the same thing, followed me in to my flat to 'get the sugar').
Another creepy neighbour, I later realised, was casing everyone's places on the road. The first time he invited himself in was creepy. The second time he came to my house scared the shit out of me because he hadn't been invited. He was just there, in my flat. I walked into my kitchen to find him standing there. He'd come in through my back garden door- I've locked all back doors even when I am home ever since. He blagged it and said, "Oh, I just was wondering if you wanted a tea together, neighbour." He was exceedingly charming in a creepy way.
He surprised a neighbour the same way when she came out of the shower to find him attempting to rob her. That was the end of that problem. We'd been having a spate of burglaries in the area and it ended up being him. He had recently moved in, rented a room in a person's home and ingratiated himself with everyone in the neighbourhood. I found him creepy from the get go.

It sounds like you have your problem resolved. But be careful! People like this never think they're in the wrong.

Spinningroundahelix · 21/05/2024 12:26

One of the first principles of self defence is to avoid the danger. That more than any hold, throw or punch will keep you safe. This man tramples over boundaries in a way that is totally abnormal even for nasty creeps. Who knows what he could do? I would seriously consider moving if you are renting.

Do not ever open the door for him when alone - it doesn't matter if he at your door having a major arterial bleed. A chain is very flimsy - the screws are often too short - and won't withstand that much. Get a ring doorbell and check all your windows are secure. You don't want to find him unexpectedly greeting you in your bedroom with a cheeky grin. Don't every trust him or believe that he won't do something utterly outrageous.

Toebeanzornottoebeanz · 21/05/2024 12:28

SerenityNowInsanityLater · 21/05/2024 12:25

Goodness. I haven't read the whole thread but most of it and I feel shaky on your behalf, OP.
I had this happen twice in my life; one neighbour tried to sexually assault me in my kitchen (he did exactly the same thing, followed me in to my flat to 'get the sugar').
Another creepy neighbour, I later realised, was casing everyone's places on the road. The first time he invited himself in was creepy. The second time he came to my house scared the shit out of me because he hadn't been invited. He was just there, in my flat. I walked into my kitchen to find him standing there. He'd come in through my back garden door- I've locked all back doors even when I am home ever since. He blagged it and said, "Oh, I just was wondering if you wanted a tea together, neighbour." He was exceedingly charming in a creepy way.
He surprised a neighbour the same way when she came out of the shower to find him attempting to rob her. That was the end of that problem. We'd been having a spate of burglaries in the area and it ended up being him. He had recently moved in, rented a room in a person's home and ingratiated himself with everyone in the neighbourhood. I found him creepy from the get go.

It sounds like you have your problem resolved. But be careful! People like this never think they're in the wrong.

I’m so sorry you went through all of that!!! Thank you so much for sharing ❤️

OP posts:
Toebeanzornottoebeanz · 21/05/2024 12:29

Spinningroundahelix · 21/05/2024 12:26

One of the first principles of self defence is to avoid the danger. That more than any hold, throw or punch will keep you safe. This man tramples over boundaries in a way that is totally abnormal even for nasty creeps. Who knows what he could do? I would seriously consider moving if you are renting.

Do not ever open the door for him when alone - it doesn't matter if he at your door having a major arterial bleed. A chain is very flimsy - the screws are often too short - and won't withstand that much. Get a ring doorbell and check all your windows are secure. You don't want to find him unexpectedly greeting you in your bedroom with a cheeky grin. Don't every trust him or believe that he won't do something utterly outrageous.

Thank you!! We are homeowners but he is renting.. my hope is that he will just move on in the near future/be evicted!

OP posts:
SerenityNowInsanityLater · 21/05/2024 12:30

The fact his girlfriend said nothing really bothers me. I feel she's probably been in this situation before, is not surprised by this.

As someone whose husband is in prison for sexual abuse and assault, can I just say that my biggest, biggest, biggest takeaway as 'the wife' is that the wife or girlfriend, most likely will have NO clue because these guys gaslight and deceive the fuck out of women. Some women, of course, are in the know. But I'd put my money on his GF being unaware of his obscene behaviour. And what he'll do is make the GF believe that the OP is a loose cannon who is lusting after him. And she'll believe him because she'll want to and need to believe him. And actually, just to add, she'll believe him because she trusts him. He probably sits around telling her about all of the horrible, creepy, predatory men out there in the world and how lucky she is to have caught a good, trusting one.

crochetcatsknitting · 21/05/2024 12:33

Would you agree @SerenityNowInsanityLater, that this man is very dangerous? How would your DH have explained away being confronted the way he was in the doorstep? And can I say, I'm so sorry for what must have been a horrific shock to you.

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Georgyporky · 21/05/2024 12:35

Why did you let it happen a second time ?

jeaux90 · 21/05/2024 12:36

@Georgyporky JFC do you usually blame women for what men do?

Motnight · 21/05/2024 12:37

Georgyporky · 21/05/2024 12:35

Why did you let it happen a second time ?

Stop victim blaming

crochetcatsknitting · 21/05/2024 12:37

Georgyporky · 21/05/2024 12:35

Why did you let it happen a second time ?

That's been discussed in the thread already.

Toebeanzornottoebeanz · 21/05/2024 12:37

SerenityNowInsanityLater · 21/05/2024 12:30

The fact his girlfriend said nothing really bothers me. I feel she's probably been in this situation before, is not surprised by this.

As someone whose husband is in prison for sexual abuse and assault, can I just say that my biggest, biggest, biggest takeaway as 'the wife' is that the wife or girlfriend, most likely will have NO clue because these guys gaslight and deceive the fuck out of women. Some women, of course, are in the know. But I'd put my money on his GF being unaware of his obscene behaviour. And what he'll do is make the GF believe that the OP is a loose cannon who is lusting after him. And she'll believe him because she'll want to and need to believe him. And actually, just to add, she'll believe him because she trusts him. He probably sits around telling her about all of the horrible, creepy, predatory men out there in the world and how lucky she is to have caught a good, trusting one.

Edited

Thank you! She came across as baffled, and concerned, the fact that she nodded in agreement with some of the things I was saying was positive - I think this could indicate some awareness of his behaviour or a complete lack of awareness of it, we just can’t really know. I can imagine I may well be being painted out as completely nuts though, it will be easier for her to believe this than to accept that he is a creep.

OP posts:
Jhgdsd · 21/05/2024 12:41

That's a scary read, he was absolutely predatory.
I would report to 101 as I would bet he has done this before.
I agree re warning other neighbours too.
Well done to your partner and you for how you handled it.
Don't beat yourself up, but NEVER allow anyone into your home like that again.
Sadly too risky.
A video bell is an excellent idea.
Report him.

crochetcatsknitting · 21/05/2024 12:41

@Chael86 He can't deny he was in your house, because your sugar bowl ended up in his.

He'd also have to convincingly explain why he couldn't find sugar twice, when there was sugar in their house. And I suspect the sugar will probably be in the place it always is.

So she should know he concocted a fiction, twice, to get into your home.

So I really hope that makes her think beyond the gaslighting @SerenityNowInsanityLater referred to.

Noseybookworm · 21/05/2024 12:48

What a creep 😳 you did absolutely the right thing by telling your partner and his partner, now he knows he's very much being watched! Have you got a ring doorbell or cameras around your house? If not, I would get some just so you can check he's not hanging around, especially if you're home alone in the day. Don't hesitate to call the police if you're worried. He may well have form for this sort of behaviour!