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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Creepy neighbour - thoughts!?

406 replies

Toebeanzornottoebeanz · 21/05/2024 07:13

Hello! I had a strange encounter with a neighbour last week which made me feel very uncomfortable. I’m sure I’m right, but my mind will always minimise things/mitigate for people so I wanted to run the situation past others and see if your thoughts support mine!

Thursday, 1pm there’s a knock on my door, I don’t answer, they knock again, this time louder. I look out the window and see that it’s a fairly new neighbour who I’ve only met once or twice in passing and never really spoken to. He lives with his girlfriend and his child. I open the door and he says he’s sorry to bother me but do I have any sugar, he’s run out and really needs a coffee. I laugh and say “are you serious” because it seemed cliche. He says yes so I say ok sure and turn to go into the house and grab him some, except he follows me in and into my kitchen. He had brought a coffee with him and then helped himself opening drawers to find himself a spoon. He then said how it’s cool that we both work from home, what time do I have my lunches usually, suggesting essentially that we could have lunches at the same time. He told me he likes to draw and saw some of my artwork, then suggested we should do some drawing together sometime. All questions after this were the type that enabled him to get close and have physical contact - I like your rings, folllowed by holding my hand and leaning in close to look at them, I like your tattoos, followed by holding my wrist and arm and running his hand over them, what size are your ears stretched to, can I have a look, followed by moving in to look closely at my ears. After a while I said sorry you need to go, I have work to do, do you want to take some sugar with you - he said no that’s fine I’ll go to the shop later - the shop which is less than a minutes walk from his house. I thought the whole thing was weird but gave him the benefit of the doubt that maybe he is very over-familiar and lacking in self-awareness, and maybe he genuinely needed some sugar.

3pm - there’s a knock at the door again, and it’s him again. I go down there, he says sorry can I grab some more sugar, I say fine and again he follows me into the house, again helping himself to a spoon. The front door has been left open, I say I need to make sure my cat hasn’t run out and he tells me I can close the door. I do this so my cat doesn’t run out and then immediately start heaping sugar into a bowl so he can take it and just get out, in the middle of doing this he says hey can I look at your tattoo again and takes hold of my wrist, runs his hand over the tattoo again and slowly up my forearm. At this point I am kind of in a corner and I panic, pull away and say I really need to get on so here’s your sugar. I then march quickly to the front door to get it open and on the way out, he says by the way - you don’t need to tell your partner I came round. I say he already knows you’ve been here.

This is all really creepy, right!?

So I tell my partner all of this and how uncomfortable I felt and he’s furious. The next day, he sees my neighbour’s partner in the street and asks her for a word, says her boyfriend made me feel very uncomfortable in our house yesterday and can we have our sugar pot back. She is baffled - why was he in our house and why does he have our pot. He explains, she goes into their house and 20 minutes later, they are both on the doorstep and he is very politely apologising for making me feel uncomfortable and asking me to explain what he did that made me feel that way. This gets my back up straight away because he knows full well, and I tell him so. He denies saying that I didn’t need to tell my partner and tells me I’m overreacting. I tell him he’s gaslighting me, and that he’s a creep. I then ask his girlfriend if they had sugar at home yesterday - she tells me yes, they did. I tell him I have no idea what his intentions were but they did not originate in a place of honesty, he had sugar at home, an open door is not an invitation in, and his behaviour in my house/towards me was unnerving. I apologised to his partner because it can’t have been nice having someone stand there and call their fella a creep.

I’m right, right!!? I’m sure I am, but I’m such an overthinker, I’m overthinking myself into thinking I’ve gone overboard..

OP posts:
Toebeanzornottoebeanz · 24/05/2024 17:26

neveradullmoment99 · 24/05/2024 17:15

Also, I know you were worried for your cat but to close the front door with him in the house the second time. This is totally unbelievable. Do you live in a open plan house? Surely you would just close the door the the cat was in?

No, cat was in the lounge, front door opens onto lounge, and yes, my house is very open.

OP posts:
Chipsahoy · 24/05/2024 17:31

You can’t control your survival response and as part of our society we are taught to be polite. The two together are going to equal fawning/ appeasing.
These men are cunning and clever. You said about it being grooming, I completely agree. I was groomed by an adult male when I was 14 and this seemed similar although that grooming was months long before the abuse began. But the excuse to touch, reasons to be close or alone, talking of spending time together and don’t tell. So familiar.

once out of survival mode you handled this like a boss. Survival mode is for a reason and likely saved your life.

Toebeanzornottoebeanz · 24/05/2024 17:40

Chipsahoy · 24/05/2024 17:31

You can’t control your survival response and as part of our society we are taught to be polite. The two together are going to equal fawning/ appeasing.
These men are cunning and clever. You said about it being grooming, I completely agree. I was groomed by an adult male when I was 14 and this seemed similar although that grooming was months long before the abuse began. But the excuse to touch, reasons to be close or alone, talking of spending time together and don’t tell. So familiar.

once out of survival mode you handled this like a boss. Survival mode is for a reason and likely saved your life.

Thank you, and thank you for sharing ❤️

OP posts:
CaveMum · 24/05/2024 18:02

Well done on following your gut OP, I hope you are feeling a bit less wobbly now.

Just a note about the “befriending” response, I learned a while back that the most famous instance of this is that which was subsequently dubbed “Stockholm Syndrome. It was mind-blowing to discover that “SS” is not a recognised diagnosis, it was in fact a term coined by a male psychologist who didn’t even bother interviewing the woman in question.

You can read more about it here, with an excerpt from Jess Hill’s excellent “See what you made me do”: https://www.stadafa.com/2020/12/stockholm-syndrome-discredit.html

“Stockholm Syndrome” was invented by police to discredit a female hostage

The phrase “Stockholm Syndrome” was invented by a police psychiatrist to discredit a female hostage in a 1973 bank heist who criticized the police.

https://www.stadafa.com/2020/12/stockholm-syndrome-discredit.html

Toebeanzornottoebeanz · 24/05/2024 18:03

CaveMum · 24/05/2024 18:02

Well done on following your gut OP, I hope you are feeling a bit less wobbly now.

Just a note about the “befriending” response, I learned a while back that the most famous instance of this is that which was subsequently dubbed “Stockholm Syndrome. It was mind-blowing to discover that “SS” is not a recognised diagnosis, it was in fact a term coined by a male psychologist who didn’t even bother interviewing the woman in question.

You can read more about it here, with an excerpt from Jess Hill’s excellent “See what you made me do”: https://www.stadafa.com/2020/12/stockholm-syndrome-discredit.html

Thank you! ❤️ that’s really interesting- thanks for sharing!

OP posts:
IOYOYO · 24/05/2024 18:06

Toebeanzornottoebeanz · 24/05/2024 06:19

Thank you - I’m not sure that freezing or fawning are what we’ve been “taught” to do, these are instinctive responses, our minds/bodies go to these to keep us safe. What we have been taught to do is be kind, be hospitable, be polite etc. and why wouldn’t I when my seemingly harmless neighbour comes to ask for some sugar at 1pm on a Thursday. 🤷‍♀️

Thank you very much for your post and for the book recommendation! A few other people have suggested this and I have ordered a copy ❤️

Yes you’re totally right actually - I was up incredibly late last night doing a big drive with our family and wrote that as I was wrangling my kids into bed after a loooong journey. Think I was slightly delirious! Hope the book is helpful.

Toebeanzornottoebeanz · 24/05/2024 18:37

IOYOYO · 24/05/2024 18:06

Yes you’re totally right actually - I was up incredibly late last night doing a big drive with our family and wrote that as I was wrangling my kids into bed after a loooong journey. Think I was slightly delirious! Hope the book is helpful.

Thank you ☺️

OP posts:
LinaM20 · 24/05/2024 19:10

When I answer the door when I’m working from home, I always do it with my headset on or my phone in my hand, so I can say I’m on a call with my boss or a client to get away from someone if I don’t want to deal with whoever is at the door. It also gives you a bit of extra protection that they may think someone else is listening to your conversation.

Pensandpeg · 24/05/2024 21:01

PremiumListing · 21/05/2024 10:09

Do not underestimate the seriousness of this situation, he sounds dangerous. He trampled through big boundaries, your home, your person.

Report this to the police non emergency line to have this logged, I have had similar and I was advised they prefer you to give them a heads up before something really bad has happened. I would not be suprised if he has a history of this, his boldness would indicate that. Your reporting will help other women if he does it again to you or someone else.

Lessons learned: never let an unexpected stranger into your house, especially when you’re home alone.

Do remember a lot of men are predatory and literally have sex and pornographic scenes running through their minds every hour of every day.

You need to practice honing awareness of your surroundings and the potential dangers.

Please do Google assertiveness videos, how to use your body language, tone of voice, and blunt communication to tell someone NO or to leave your property.

Generally, a cautionary tale not to answer the door if you’re not expecting anyone. Ask them to put a card or letter through your letterbox.
Anything really important will email, text or write to you anyway.

Burglery under these conditions would have been the least of your worries, I’m so pleased that you are unharmed, even though you’re clearly very shook up.

To start with, anytime someone begins to invade your personal space, move away.
If someone goes as far as to touch you, you must reuse your voice and tell them to STOP! Loudly.

The trick is to be on your guard and stop any overtures at the very earliest hurdle.

He did lots of micro tests on you, then and he progressed to interfering with your body.

The first no should have been before opening the door.

It’s not your fault. I wish we didn’t have to deal with this crap from predators.

Edited

100% this! He is a very dangerous person and he was testing your boundaries and taking advantage. I would 100% log it with the non emergency line. It might be difficult but if you could find out his full name and get some information through Claire’s Law as to whether he has been in trouble with the law in the past. Please keep your distance and be vigilant.

In know we shouldn’t have to, we should feel safe in our own homes but (some) men like to take advantage of that.

I'm really sorry this happened to you. It’s really shitty and I’m glad you feel supported from your partner x

therealcookiemonster · 24/05/2024 22:04

I'm getting serial killer vibes

Iworkformeanies · 25/05/2024 01:14

Not sure if it's already been mentioned but OP won't get anything from a Clare's Law application. You either have to be in a relationship with the person or worried about the risk someone's partner poses to them. If OP did apply and the Police had something on him they would approach his wife/partner with the information. The person putting in the application wouldn't be told anything but it could help the partner.

CormorantStrikesBack · 25/05/2024 06:56

I think you did great btw in telling him exactly what you thought of him in front of his partner when he came back. For the sake of not making a fuss by that stage a lot of people may have put off/not said what you did. You’ve been very clear with him that you have him sussed out which should hopefully put him off further attempts.

Princess1968 · 25/05/2024 10:01

Wow I can't imagine what you went threw ,reading your story gave me the shivers.. I must say this to you ,Well Done ✔️
But please protect yourself get small cameras inside your kitchen and maybe a CALLER ID DOOR BELL.
And you wasn't over reacting at all I honestly think you was a BRAVE LADY.
Thank you for Sharing your story to make others aware of the bad sign to look out for.

SmudgeButt · 25/05/2024 12:08

Odd. If it happens again be prepared and have a bag of sugar to hand him and say he can drop the cost of it in a charity box next time he's in the shops and then close the door.

rosaleetree · 25/05/2024 13:59

SmudgeButt · 25/05/2024 12:08

Odd. If it happens again be prepared and have a bag of sugar to hand him and say he can drop the cost of it in a charity box next time he's in the shops and then close the door.

LOL what? so now OP has to go out and buy some sugar she doesnt want with her own money just in case he decides to come back a third time to fuck with her?

She isnt responsible for buying his bloody groceries and she should NOT even open the door to him, let alone give him stuff if he has the nerve to come back after being specifically told not to.

What next? she should do a weekly shop for him and keep it in the porch "just in case"?

Geez. NO. Please stop with this be kind garbage.

taylorswift1989 · 25/05/2024 15:12

Honestly, I can't deal with some of these comments. Women are not children. You shouldn't have to be told to not let some creep in your house (and shut the door behind him!) once you've learned he's a creep. Now apparently OP has to get a ring doorbell and a bodyguard and buy sugar and answer the door with the phone held to her ear and god knows what else. Really, all she needs to do is learn the word 'NO'. Use her brain and think, hmm, should I let this guy who's totally creeped me out into my house and shut the door behind him so we're closed in together? Maybe not!

BurntBroccoli · 25/05/2024 17:28

taylorswift1989 · 25/05/2024 15:12

Honestly, I can't deal with some of these comments. Women are not children. You shouldn't have to be told to not let some creep in your house (and shut the door behind him!) once you've learned he's a creep. Now apparently OP has to get a ring doorbell and a bodyguard and buy sugar and answer the door with the phone held to her ear and god knows what else. Really, all she needs to do is learn the word 'NO'. Use her brain and think, hmm, should I let this guy who's totally creeped me out into my house and shut the door behind him so we're closed in together? Maybe not!

Except OP didn't just let him in. He followed her uninvited!

"so I say ok sure and turn to go into the house and grab him some, except he follows me in and into my kitchen. "

IncompleteSenten · 25/05/2024 17:38

It annoys the fuck out of me that we get all this shit.
Why did you do x, y, z...
You should have done this
You shouldn't have done that
You mustn't hurt men's feelings
Namalt
Not every man is a rapist!
How could you let a man come into your house? You put yourself at risk.
He was just being friendly
You're paranoid
Maybe he's on The Spectrum
Be nice
Be kind
Don't make a fuss
You should have shouted at him.
The list is endless but all adds up to one inescapable conclusion - we are wrong no matter what we do, feel or think and are responsible for the actions of men.

We have to prioritise, centre and protect them and think the best of them while protecting ourselves from them but not in a way that makes it look like we are saying we need to protect ourselves from them cos, again, namalt.

I guarantee if you'd have posted that you wouldn't let him in some tosspot would have argued you were wrong for not giving him a chance, maybe you misunderstood and it's important to be kind.

Toebeanzornottoebeanz · 25/05/2024 18:07

taylorswift1989 · 25/05/2024 15:12

Honestly, I can't deal with some of these comments. Women are not children. You shouldn't have to be told to not let some creep in your house (and shut the door behind him!) once you've learned he's a creep. Now apparently OP has to get a ring doorbell and a bodyguard and buy sugar and answer the door with the phone held to her ear and god knows what else. Really, all she needs to do is learn the word 'NO'. Use her brain and think, hmm, should I let this guy who's totally creeped me out into my house and shut the door behind him so we're closed in together? Maybe not!

You’re right, I’m clearly completely brainless. We’ll reduce the psychology and nuances of the entire situation to that solid input.

OP posts:
taylorswift1989 · 25/05/2024 19:15

Toebeanzornottoebeanz · 25/05/2024 18:07

You’re right, I’m clearly completely brainless. We’ll reduce the psychology and nuances of the entire situation to that solid input.

Edited

I didn't say anything like that, OP.

But all the comments about needing security cameras and all the rest of it are missing the point. Which is that saying "no" shouldn't be such a difficult thing for an adult person to do.

The fact that you couldn't say no to him even though he had already threatened you and you were on the other side of the door to him in your own home is very worrying. Not to mention then going and shutting the front door with both of you inside. What are we teaching girls that they grow into women who literally stand aside for any man who asks? We have to have some kind of sense of self preservation, surely?

NDmumoftwo · 25/05/2024 19:28

He's a creep, one that preys on the fact that women are socialised to put up with things that are ever-so-slightly-uncomfortable so as not to cause a fuss.

BurntBroccoli · 25/05/2024 20:34

"I didn't say anything like that, OP.

But all the comments about needing security cameras and all the rest of it are missing the point. Which is that saying "no" shouldn't be such a difficult thing for an adult person to do.

The fact that you couldn't say no to him even though he had already threatened you and you were on the other side of the door to him in your own home is very worrying. Not to mention then going and shutting the front door with both of you inside. What are we teaching girls that they grow into women who literally stand aside for any man who asks? We have to have some kind of sense of self preservation, surely?"

@taylorswift1989

What should she have said when he followed her in?
"Can you wait outside please?" This would have made OP uncomfortable I'm sure, as it's giving away the fact that she thinks the neighbour is a threat.
He'd probably get off on that fear and perhaps he may have refused. What then?

user1493375230 · 25/05/2024 20:44

1 million % contact the police and log it.

Ohthatoldchestnut · 25/05/2024 21:29

@taylorswift1989 Ah yes, the magical shield of "no". Have you ever said "no" to a man and they've decided to simply ignore it? Or punish you for not acquiescing? As PP said, some rapey types actually get off on the "no" - it actually encourages them.
Self-preservation isn't always about pushing back and we are not invincible. Also, some people have security cameras because the word "no" has less than zero effect in their situations - having them is their self-preservation.

If someone had been assaulted, would you be excusing the perpetrator by saying "Well, she shouldn't have had too much to drink", "Silly girl, didn't use your brain, what do you expect if you go back to a guy's house after a date?" and that golden oldie "What were you wearing?" I really hope not but that's the logical follow-on from "If only you knew how to say no...".

And as rather a lot of us have previously stated, the OP's reactions here are neither illogical, nor unreasonable in the context of the situation.
Now, if it had been a violent ex beating on her door yelling at her to let him in, then yes, she'd probably not have opened the door. Because OP is very clearly not an idiot.

So, yes, there are things we can do to help minimise our exposure to people who will do us harm and we should teach these to our daughters to give them useful tools. BUT our daughters, sisters, friends should not be judged as failures (like you've seemed to judge OP) if something happens to them and they don't behave exactly how you think they ought to. The behaviour of men is STILL not our responsibility.

taylorswift1989 · 25/05/2024 21:52

Of course a man can ignore a no. But if you're on one side of the door and he's on the other, you have the advantage. Don't open the door in the first place. Or say, no, go to the shop. If the guy barges his way in that's terrifying but so is inviting him in and closing the door behind him. No isn't a super power, but it's worth a try. Especially if someone is depending on social convention and politeness to gain access.

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