To think nurseries are not safe for young babies

[Luxell934]

I've read about two very young babies dying in nurseries recently. One who choked after being given inappropriate food and one who was left to smother to death.

As a new mother it's absolutely terrifying to think about, I have also worked myself in nurseries for a number of years. It was a very well respected chain of nurseries and we were always understaffed and over ratio, I remember caring for up to 9 babies with just two staff and were told team leaders were "in the office, if needed" which basically meant get on with it and don't bother us. I also remember feeding 4/5 babies at a time. Looking back I was so young that I didn't speak up.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13438725/Nursery-nurse-Kate-Roughley-manslaughter-convicted.html

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cqennjjllpqo

Fair point.

This nursery didn't have any other staff or CCTV...

Oh no! Hang on....

I didn't think it would be long before 'childminders are still more dangerous than nurseries' rubbish was posted. People can't help it.

Poor babies, RIP Genevieve and Oliver

Could you link to that research, or a summary of it?

As a FTM due to to back to work in 6 months I had decided on Nursery for my baby because my second hand knowledge of childminders is that a baby will basically end up tagging along with what the older children are doing

Yes, but the child who died couldn't! You can't give a baby who can't chew solid food, let them choke to death and then say "well...babies should be able to chew".

Do you push people out of wheelchairs because they should be able to walk?!

I used to go to a playgroup with my youngest child and there were a group of childminders who’d be there most weeks. They used to sit there the whole time drinking coffee and chatting and completely ignoring the children they were meant to be looking after!

I don’t think it’s as straightforward as saying certain settings are good and others are bad, you can get poor quality childminders and nurseries and you can get great ones too.

Personal experience of working in lots of settings as a nursery nurse. You might have one of those nurseries that is really good for very young children, if so, great.
Most do not cater well for them, but I might be being fussy. Think things like, not taking them outdoors very often or sometimes at all in one day (harder because of ratios), enforcing nap time at the same time for all babies, one member of staff having to see to several babies if the ratio is short. Babies have no need or requirement to socialise, they just need a consistent and warm caregiver to meet their needs. This is harder if staff turnover is high or if staff have lots of other babies to think of

Don't talk rot. with the wheelchair analogy.

Baby should've been supervised though especially if she had special dietary needs

Rather more babies are killed in their homes than in nurseries. Which is a really depressing thought.

My child needed to be there for their benefit at a young age as I was in no state to be looking after them

That’s completely valid. You just have to do what’s right for you.

Hang on, surely statistically young children are more likely to be seriously hurt or harmed at home?

These cases are heartbreaking, I agree that unsafe ratios and poor governance / training and turnover must be tackled to improve services full stop.

But accidents DO happen even for the best will, it’s tragic and I know that will be of no comfort to these families of course not.

However I agree up thread where PP said this distinctly sounds like another bashing and guilt tripping of working parents (which let’s be honest means mother).

How was that manslaughter by the way?? Murder surely.

The baby shouldn't have been given solid food because they'd been told the baby (for whatever reason) couldn't chew well enough to tolerate solid food. It's so, so simple.

Fair enough. I'm assume they should've given the pureed food the parent provided then.

The one we have in mind has a max of 9 babies in the baby room, a 1:3 max ratio and a no lone working policy, as well as good feedback from local parents i know. They take them outside twice a day and nap time has some flexibility.

I get that this places loves a pointless working mums v SAHM scrap but are people really going to get on their soapbox on the back of a dead child?

You might be interested in these two articles:

https://criticalscience.medium.com/on-the-science-of-daycare-4d1ab4c2efb4

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2010/oct/02/nurseries-childcare-pre-school-cortisol

I wouldn't call these two incidents accidents. Did you read the articles?

My intention was not to guilt anyone. No-one has to explain their reasons to me why they choose to send their baby to a nursery. Although it does make me wonder though why some peoples first response is that "it's guilt tripping working mothers!". Likely these people DO feel guilty for sending their child to nursery and they get a little defensive when the subject is brought up. (They shouldn't though, theres nothing to feel guilty about.)

What do you mean 'tagging along" with what the older children are doing? Farm trips? Park? Playgroups? The garden? The playroom?

Yes we have older toddlers and preschoolers too but all activities suit all surely? They just access them differently but I don't understand the tagging along bit?

You say the same for driving in cars though, yet everyone continues to do it.

There’s a sliding scale of what’s good for infants.

im sure more serious harm happens at home, due to lack of accountability vs childcare settings .

but day to day children are just generally better off with their primary caregiver. It’s not bashing working parents to say this - people have to do whatever is right for them but it Is silly to lie/be in denial about it

also to a Pp - murder is intentional, manslaughter is not

I am aware but when the child is obviously suffocating and you don't help them then that seems intentional.

They probably don’t need it but I personally think my 12 month old gets a lot out of going to preschool twice a week. In the few weeks of going, she’s now happily going to her key worker and other staff members, gets to do fun stuff that we don’t do at home (messy play etc) and gets to play alongside other babies her own age. She was an extremely clingy baby to me and I worried dreadfully about putting her in but she seems to be thriving there.

but it’s not pre planned. The pre planned element is the different.

Of course not all nurseries are unsafe due to 2 incredibly rare tragedies in the news.

Are all nurseries great? No of course not but the same could be said about childminders, nannies and SAHM’s.