To think nurseries are not safe for young babies

[Luxell934]

I've read about two very young babies dying in nurseries recently. One who choked after being given inappropriate food and one who was left to smother to death.

As a new mother it's absolutely terrifying to think about, I have also worked myself in nurseries for a number of years. It was a very well respected chain of nurseries and we were always understaffed and over ratio, I remember caring for up to 9 babies with just two staff and were told team leaders were "in the office, if needed" which basically meant get on with it and don't bother us. I also remember feeding 4/5 babies at a time. Looking back I was so young that I didn't speak up.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13438725/Nursery-nurse-Kate-Roughley-manslaughter-convicted.html

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cqennjjllpqo

Oh yes, the nurseries I worked in were awful.

The parents didn't know that though.

Just like in this case.

Obviously both terribly sad. But I don't understand why the 9 months old needed pureed food. If you start weaning your baby at 6 months they can eat finger food at that point. I never pureed food for my babies. I obviously cut things like grapes but other things they just ate whole.

I completely agree OP but guilt at choosing or having to work makes women tell themselves that nurseries are great for socialising babies who really just want one or two primary caregivers until 2. So most people will post angry patronising responses because they need to sleep at night.

Fair enough, it's a very interesting subject even if you don't have little kids anymore.

Obviously fully entitled to call BS on anything you want. It means less directly followed by an admission that you've no interest in reading the facts though 😂

And that's exactly what we chose. Small numbers in each room. Consistency of carers - my eldest got so attached to one that I had to wait until the lady started her shift to drop my child in the morning! When they needed to move rooms, they had familiarisation time before they moved. The carers from the previous room would pop in and see them. I never had a problem.

The owner was mostly on site - it was a small family business. You just knew the staff wouldn't step out of line! Not that I can imagine the majority ever wanted to. My sister's child in another nursery was lifted by the arms one day. Staff member dismissed on the spot. (Sister felt awful about it!)

Our nursery sadly closed not that long ago for economic reasons. I was amazed to discover how many of the staff were still there who had been there when my children were. If you find somewhere like that, trust me, you've struck gold!

"Could you link to that research, or a summary of it?

As a FTM due to to back to work in 6 months I had decided on Nursery for my baby because my second hand knowledge of childminders is that a baby will basically end up tagging along with what the older children are doing"

@PoppingTomorrow the research is the entirety of John Bowlby's attachment theory. Mary Ainsworth did a lot on this too. Richard Bowlby, Johns son, also did some interesting research on multiple indiscriminate care in day nurseries and the impact this has on children.

It's well documented that nursery is not the best for children under 2. But nobody likes to highlight this as it can't be helped in today's society. We can't all stay home.

Except books on child development don’t all say the same things, and aren’t necessarily written by experts anyway. Many will be former nannies and have a vested interest if you like in telling parents that if they absolutely must work a single caregiver is best for their child. It probably is but it’s also unaffordable and impractical for many of us.

But anyone who thinks that having breakfast between 730 and 9 is institutionalising child isn’t someone I care to listen to TBH.

There aren't enough hours in my day to do the life stuff that is actually relevant to my life now let alone read up on something that isn't.

I am more than capable of applying my own commonsense, intelligence and experience though.

Still BS. From my experience as a mother of three.

Yes, this isn't a good argument. "Tagging along" with what the older children are doing is exactly what happens day in, day out, in families up and down the land. It's not actually a naturally occuring state for young babies to be kept with only other the same age. They actually learn quite a bit by observing and interacting with older siblings and family friends.

I did over the years have a couple of workers in the nursery say that they wouldn't send their own children to nursery when they had them. And guess what, when the time came they did!!!

Same as I had a midwife once say to me that she wouldn't line the consultant's pockets by paying for antenatal care that they would just spend on holidays. Guess who was sitting waiting for her appointment when I rocked up for one of my appointments...!!!

My first three went from ten months, and all loved it, went in happy, came out happy. I think threads like this are very harmful for nervous first time mothers

Of course, loads of families prefer nursery for all sorts of reasons. I'm absolutely not suggesting otherwise. But it's not 'good' for the babies. It's fine for the baby and it suits the broader family.

I'm sure that poster isn't... but let's just say you aren't coming across all that well yourself, before you start casting aspersions on other posters...

What I took from the post was that the poster was generalising?!

(I don't friggin' remember when mine ate what - it's all lost in the mists of time!)

Well it was good for mine. Probably because it actually did have competent and caring staff.

Having been a baby room practitioner and a childminder, I can definitely say that caring for one baby, plus 2 or 3 under 5s, plus several school children as a lone working childminder is infinitely easier, less stressful and involved less baby distress than caring for 15 babies as part of a team of 5 (ideally/on paper but usually 3 or 4 in practice!) nursery staff. I do think stress levels are probably too high for everyone in large baby rooms and we should definitely tackle that.
One of the issues in the case mentioned is that the ratio that day was 11 babies to two adults. Absolutely shouldn't be happening but it does. That's not a natural way to care for very young children, it's too stressful for adults and babies.

You are not the person who gets to make that judgement

I would say if you do look for a book on child development look for one that is a textbook style one that references the research studies etc. Don't get one written by someone spouting their own philosophy. You'll find the ones using research to support their claims do all say broadly the same thing because the research all points the same way.

I would in no way have wanted my baby to be dragged out strapped in a car seat 3/4 times a day for school dropoffs and pickups.

This is bonkers. They just do school runs exactly as the do many younger siblings at home with mum

Yes, this isn't a good argument. "Tagging along" with what the older children are doing is exactly what happens day in, day out, in families up and down the land. It's not actually a naturally occuring state for young babies to be kept with only other the same age. They actually learn quite a bit by observing and interacting with older siblings and family friends.

This. For me, i wanted a set up mirroring a family home. A biggish family with four or five kids, yes, but a family. Maybe a 7 yr old, 5 yr old, couple of 2-3 year olds and a baby. A family doesn't usually consist of three 19 year olds in one room with 9 babies.

I couldn't agree more!

No, that's why people research things to produce evidence that can inform us. It's available to be read should you wish to.

That's great to hear. I'm glad you had such a positive experience.

@Hotgirlwinter totally agree

2 tragic deaths = all nurseries are dangerous? Quite a leap...

Again, all about the broad strokes and not about individual nuance

What difference does it make? A baby isn't going to know whether it's a family set up or not. My first shitty CM had teens who she absolutely prioritised. TG I didn't have my children with her when they were babies! Do they realise that staff are 19? (Not that they all are, of course!)

I reckon my CMs did way more school runs etc than I ever did. Drop off to school/nursery school, pick up from nursery, maybe several times a day as nursery times locally were staggered. 2pm pick up, 3pm pickup, afterschool pickup. The poor kid would be spending most of their day in the goddamn car! Plus most of the local CMs would be minding kids from different schools.

My children had interaction with older siblings and family friends on my watch!!

Second shitty CM had a child the same age as my youngest. Child was pretty devious and got my daft, innocent child into trouble, and guess what, mum always sided with her own child. Fuck that for a game of soldiers.