To think that men get a ridiculously bad rap on this site?

[MsLuxLisbon]

It is really depressing to read post after post after post knocking men, saying how awful and useless they are, saying they are mostly lazy, selfish sex pests, etc. That has not only not been my experience, but it hasn't been ANY of my friends' or family's, either. The odd bad man, sure, just as my male friends have dated bad women. But not enough to justify this bizarre generalisation.

Yes yes yes!!!!!

I agree. Yes maybe there's a few superfluous LTBs and a the odd slightly unfair cocklodging allegation but I can live with that. Men can be trash. Not all men. But a lot of them, and this is a place where women can talk about that. Also agree that Mumsnet has helped me navigate my own marriage in a way that has ultimately been very good for both of us. I tolerate zero crap from him thanks to MN and that's as it should be.

Exactly 👏

If you need an internet site to not 'tolerate crap' I don't know what to tell you!

I'm not a 'feminist'. I'm a humanist.

What's a 'humanist'? I mean, there's such a term but it doesn't mean what you Thani it does, I'll wager. 🙄

You're spectacularly uninformed.

And a woman who isn't a feminist, is not someone I've any time for.

And why 'feminist', in quotes?

You don't seem to understand me, it's not the internet site that's helped me, it's the women who post on it. Smart, kind, experienced women. The website is just how I've been able to communicate with them. Does that make sense?

If you need an internet site to not 'tolerate crap' I don't know what to tell you!

You are actually offensive & clearly don't have the faintest idea of what abuse is like.

You're an actual disgrace.

@Poettree

Yes. Well put 👏

it is super boring on a site that was set up for women to talk to other women (primarily) to keep being scolded that we are horrible to the poor menz.

Men, who if you read the board, neglect their parenting duties, do what they want, often treat their wives/partners like servants.

But yes, we are AWFUL for talking about it and asking for help, a friendly ear, or strategies to cope with it.

there's such a term but it doesn't mean what you Thani it does

Typo - 'think it does'

OP youre showing your true colours. If this site helps empower then thats great. Also your comment 'women are not my sisters'....i would have guessed that before you posted that comment. Humanist? Lol. Have you tried the term internalised misogyny? That suits you more. Im outta here...im losing my temper. I work with women who are abused everyday by men. Youd be alarmed by the numbers, and those are the ones that seek support, theres ones that dont.

Oh dear, this is ridiculous OP. I hope you can begin to understand how far you've taken on board misogyny but it feels like you aren't yet open to considering this. I don't want to sound patronising but it's hard not to.

Ah

Got you now. True colours revealed. And no point to this thread other than to perpetuate misogyny

The posters on this board are self-selecting. Obviously, people with perfect husbands (and they do exist, apparently) are not on here, whether it be to moan about something trivial or to seek help with more serious issues.

That said, I do think underneath the surface of society there is a genuine problem with women quietly suffering without knowing how to get help or even really realising how badly they are being treated. Women throughout history have been told to get on with things, to not complain, to keep quiet and carry on. If places like this offer a way for people to seek solidarity and help that can only be a good thing.

'Misogyny'. Give it a rest. I now know what posters to avoid, so that's good. A few people seem to get my point, so that's good to hear.

I'm not asking for it both ways. It's the OP not I who is objecting to people expressing views that don't align with her own. Personally I'm always quietly pleased to see some opposing posts, as it would be a very dull debate otherwise. But more importantly, they act as a springboard for the expression of some very intelligent and insightful responses in rebuttal, and I've learned a lot from those posters.

My only issue is when the subject matter is very sensitive and women are sharing very personal experiences with each other and a cohort bulldoze their way in to tell them off for being unfair to the nice men. All these hoards of nice men, who are apparently out there, glued to MN, wounded to the core because a woman speaking about rape forgot to stress that she means SOME men. Because being fair to men matters more than allowing women to speak of their trauma.

Nope. Men get nowhere near enough of the "bad rap" that is justified by any metric of violence, sexual abuse, financial abuse, and criminal activity, of their behaviour as a class.

Yep this.

It’s not really individual men’s fault. Society is set up very much to teach women some things are their job and if a man helps with them they are lucky. Women are equally as guilty as men for holding these beliefs and judging others based on them. This in turn gives men who are happy with the status quo every reason to think their behaviour is absolutely fair and reasonable

My OH and I share housework, he will proactively get on with day to day stuff same as I do but even with that it’s so different the way that’s reacted to. So me doing half the housework & picking up his stuff if he’s super busy/ill etc is a complete non event & no one would comment on it. When it’s him doing half and picking up my stuff he’s amazing, I’m lucky to have him, I’ve found a keeper etc.

When he goes away with work it’s not commented on. When I do I’m asked “who will look after the kids? or “Will your OH be ok on his own?”. Better yet I’m asked if I feel guilty leaving them for so long or why I had kids if I was never going to see them 🙄

Also what I’ve found is while my OH gets on with the day to day stuff like filling/emptying dishwasher, emptying bins, wiping down surfaces, updating finances, kids homework/packed lunch etc he’s blummin useless at proactively doing any one off tasks. He’s never planned a family holiday/day out, sorted kids birthday party, arranged a play date, organised a house repair/improvement, booed in school holiday clubs etc. If I mention this he just says “well you are really good at it but if you need me to book something just tell me”. If it was the other way round I’ve no doubt I’d be judged for leaving it to him. Enough people are horrified I leave him to figuring out his families gifts at Christmas and birthdays.

To me the issue is wider/more nuanced than men being bad in some way. The issue is that the expectations for men are different in lots of instances (above are just small examples) and if they won’t acknowledge that and acknowledge it isn’t fair then work to help change things then the status quo will remain. I don’t entirely blame them as it’s not always easy to see the issue, particularly if you are benefiting with the status quo. It feels similar to the constant denials that black people do suffer consequences of racism even if individuals are not actively aiming to be racist. They feel it because they are on the receiving end. White people don’t see it because it’s not them being disadvantaged and they are not actively doing anything bad.

I've reported your post, my first ever .

Ahh now surely you are trying to be ironic now? What with all your own bonkers generalisations?

Many men are indeed absolutely vile and its good women have a place to vent and get support.

However, threads where people post about their caring, kind, decent husbands or male relatives get told to stop bragging and consider themselves lucky etc so those threads dont get the same traction that support seeking threads get.

It's like anything online- the horror stories get more attention and people dont tend to post when all is well because there is no need.

People post about their bad experiences. That's all.

I'm delighted for you, op, that you and your friends and family have never experienced some of the horrors. I hope you never ever do in future.

I won't, because I am perfectly happy being single. If my husband died, I probably wouldn't start another relationship. If I did, and it didn't work out, I would end it.

Pride comes before a fall, OP and one day it might be you posting that you've found your husband's cheating, or you get harassed by some random on a train late at night or what have you... Just because it hasn't happened to you yet doesn't mean it never will.