To think kids don't care if their parents love one another?

[AnotherDayAnotherDoll]

I was reading a boook "Stay or Leave- which is a book that discusses the indecision about whether to leave a relationship

In the chapter about how to consider kids when leaving relationship - it argued that really all kids want to do is avoid conflict. So doesn't matter whatever the set up - if it's predictable & kind & v little conflict - it doesn't matter all that much whether you are together or not.

And if you're in loveless & sexless marriage but where people are perfectly civil - most kids don't truly care/are interested as long as long as it doesn't affect them.

What are people's views?

I hvae some sympathy with this view. I'm not sure I ever considered (when I was a child) whether my parents loved one another or whether they were just functioning housemates who parented together.

Even if it meant they would both spend their lives miserable?

I would hope that I had brought my kids up to respect that everyone has a right to happiness (or at least the right to seek it), I'd be horrified and deeply hurt if they cared so little about me that they expected me to stay with their dad to make them happy and leave me feeling miserable. Honestly, it just seems like the ultimate in selfishness. I get that small kids don't understand big emotions but surely adult children have to accept their parents are entitled to be happy.

This. I completely get that small kids are developmentally selfish and I wouldn’t expect them to take their parents’ feelings into account. A bit shocked though by the number of adults here saying they’d have preferred their parents to stay together unhappily for their benefit.
Having divorced parents is absolutely a pain in the arse and it has marred occasions like my wedding, birth of my children etc. However I don’t wish they’d have stayed together, as they were both miserable. They’re both happier apart.

I have a friend in her 30s whose mother met her partner when friend was a tween, he had children and other stepchildren, and they are now one huge happy family, and she calls all of them her brother/sister.

it’s very difficult to know how things will pan out

If I was pushed to be truly honest, I think sometimes people use kids as a excuse not to rock the boat. In your case OP, you don't need him hut are choosing to stay by the sounds of it because he would be a shitbag otherwise.

That on its own is a form of coercive control and abuse. It's keeping you in your box. So I'd argue that actually things are bad enough to leave.

You aren't responsible for his behaviour. Once you truly accept that I think its hard to justify staying. So I actually think things are bad enough on that basis.

You wouldn't want this for your daughter would you?

@CommentNow excellent post.

The adult children who have said they wished their parents were still together even after decades, thank u for such honesty. It would be interesting if they came back to answer the question about whether they wish that even if their parents were dissatisfied/only tolerating one another. @Youdontevengohere

@CommentNow yes, you are 100% right I am worried about him being a shitbag! If I thought we could approach it like sensible adults prioritising the kids, I would leave.

Actually I agree OP. It's not a popular opinion but I think there's a lot to be said for finding ways to make things work well as a Co parenting partnership even if its not working in a rainbows and butterflies way. I 100% DONT believe in staying together when it's violent, unpleasant, hate has set in etc. But if it's become sexless and more of a working / friendship relationship than I think there should be open culture discussions around how that is not such a bad thing - kids don't need to know sex and romance to grow up secure and happy.

But I also believe in working really hard to stay together and not end up alone when you get old so the kids aren't saddled with that either. Obviously nobody can help it if one of you dies etc, but I think we choose who we partner and have children with and we should take more responsibility for seeing that out. Like I said, absolutely realise that isn't a popular western opinion anymore and I definitely don't think abused people should be staying together.

I am a fifty something Mumsnetter. At this stage of life I have seen a number of my friends go through divorce. Sometimes it cannot be avoided. Repeated cheating, men just up and leaving, abuse etc and you leave. However, otherwise I think you need to stay and work at it. The toll on children from living with step-parents can be very high and on women in particular stability just goes out of the window. If a marriage can be repaired I wold repair it.

@Cyclebabble it's frustrating - as on my side of things - I would be able to comfortably provide for my children alone and I also guarantee I would not bring a step dad/step siblings into their young lives. But who knows what my H would do - he may well pursue other women with children.

@ReallyBadEyeDeerI do think actually the vast majority of people who end up divorcing have probably tried really really hard to make it work. Divorce is terrfying, costly, disruptive, upsetting - I absolutely hate everything about it. I can't imagine many women do it without really trying first.

I think being old and in a couple is only a source of security if that couple is loving. Being old & alone is better than being old & stuck with some git who doesn't truly care about you - and you can't even get out the house anymore!

Getting old with H is actually one of the big motivators considering to leaving - I would hate to rely on him when I was old or vulnerable in any way because he has shown himself unable to do that so many times when I've needed him as a young (ish) woman.

@Youdontevengohere

It's a good question.

They still see each other most weeks and talk all the time, Children and Grandchildren etc

My dad had an affair. I think he regrets it to this day.

But it's all too late.

It caused immense pain, still does. Affairs are horrific.

I agree with this. From my obersvations, blended families cause much more difficulty for children compared to parents who are together but not passionately in love.

If they could be together and civil and not totally miserable, then yes I would rather they were still together. My inner child would really love that if I'm honest. My parents have absolutely no idea I feel like that of course, they are both remarried and think 'happy parents happy children'.

I stayed with my husband and we remained on civil terms with a view to splitting up when my youngest finished university. Unfortunately dh died in his mid 50's and I'm now in a widow situation for a man who I unfortunately fell out of love with a long time ago. Youngest will finish uni next year and I live alone in a really rural setting. I don't share my situation with anyone but it's so frustrating. I feel like I'll never escape what society expected me of as a wife and mother, now as a widow.

I'm sorry, I don't think I understand. It's sad that he died and I know you wouldn't have wished that, but how does widowhood restrict you like being married to him did? You are free and single, albeit by a way you would never have chosen.

Thank you for answering this so honestly.

I think that “civil and not totally miserable” is a hard thing for most people to manage- maybe a few very tolerant and even tempered souls could do it, but I fear that those people are a minority. I’m not sure I could do it.

For what it’s worth, I don’t think this sounds like OP’s position as her husband is being actively unkind, to the point that she describes it as intolerable. Such a hard situation.

I should be clear in my previous posts: in no way am I suggesting anyone should stay in an abusive relationship, or a desperately unhappy one.

but; the idea that couples / parents should be completely in love and demonstrating this to be a “role model” is just unrealistic to me. Every couple I know that are over the top affectionate have split. It just feels like expecting over the top love at all times is a bit of a fantasy: and people go chasing this high with other people,
creating blended families where the adults kid themselves on that everyone is happy

@AnotherDayAnotherDoll thanks so much for asking this question and generating such a thoughtful discussion. I’m in a seemingly identical situation and spend a ridiculous amount of time going round and round in my head about it. Think so often the impact on the kids is overlooked, when I occasionally get close to deciding I can’t go on with things anymore the thought of putting them through the resulting vitriol and relentless moving about always stops me, or maybe I’m just chicken, I really don’t know.

On the modelling relationships point, my parent’s relationship had similarities which concerns me but the general house atmosphere and the relationships we both have with the kids is so much better that it’s not quite enough to swing me. And I would have been happy if my parents had divorced at any time, mine very clearly would not. And like many people have pointed out, the alternative isn’t them growing up with us in a loving relationship it’s them growing up in two homes with likely much more antagonistic parents, and possibly stepmums and siblings too (not for me, never again).

But then like you, if he was the one to leave I would be delighted, but then it wouldn’t be acrimonious which is most of the fear. I think with a united front we could manage the kids difficulties with the change but not if one is saying they don’t want it and blaming the other. Like I said, I go round and round and round…

Don't underestimate how freeing it would be and how much extra mental energy you'd have if
a) you were no longer having to pretend that things were ok
b) 'shall I leave/stay' was no longer going round and round in your head
Unless you're planning to stay into retirement and beyond ( just you and him rattling around )consider that you're only postponing things .
Ageing , health, state of your children's relationships , careers, education will mean that there's never a good time.

@Wakeskraken - identical situation! so much of what you describe is the same.

that is exactly it about wanting them to leave - of course, then it wouldn't be acrimonious because i actually want it too - but because he chose it he would act with control and able to put kids first. if I do it against his wishes - he will react v badly and i know will put his own hurt feelings above the feelings of the kids. and i would expect that to continue for some time, maybe the rest of the kids childhood.

i have found people so helpful and insightful on this thread.

And the two things I know with 100% certainity is that I can't tolerate this going on in my head at this level of the next fifteen years - I literally can't. And also that I really really don't want to be older with him. Right now, life is so busy and demanding, it seems manageable but with no kids, and then no work, - just me and him - GOD NO. So as @Thisoldheartofmine is a just a postponing thing and i worry then then i'll be in my fifties and the kids will still be v hurt by the whole thing.

It's so frigging hard.

Replying to myself to add context

I've been thinking about this further. I am now nearly 30, and the divorce and my moms behaviour in particular has taken a huge toll on my life. However, I do realise that my Dad is happier now than he was when my parents were together, and I do prefer that to them being married still overall.

There are some things that suck, and I wish my parents could have acted more like adults and I really hated getting drawn into step family situations. I was extremely unhappy as a child and felt unwanted wherever I was. I have issues with food because my mom and stepdad resented having to buy food for me. Some parents do seem to become abusive and negligent when they're not with the child's other parent, like you get discarded and they move on.

I still think people tell themselves things like "kids are resilient" "kids want their parents to be happy (at their own expense)"... to make themselves feel better, but they're not true, but I am glad my dad is a happier. Its very complicated OP 😕