To think kids don't care if their parents love one another?

[AnotherDayAnotherDoll]

I was reading a boook "Stay or Leave- which is a book that discusses the indecision about whether to leave a relationship

In the chapter about how to consider kids when leaving relationship - it argued that really all kids want to do is avoid conflict. So doesn't matter whatever the set up - if it's predictable & kind & v little conflict - it doesn't matter all that much whether you are together or not.

And if you're in loveless & sexless marriage but where people are perfectly civil - most kids don't truly care/are interested as long as long as it doesn't affect them.

What are people's views?

I hvae some sympathy with this view. I'm not sure I ever considered (when I was a child) whether my parents loved one another or whether they were just functioning housemates who parented together.

I want my children to know that marriage is a life long commitment it's not something you trial and leave because you are bored or "deserve to be happy". If a spouse is abusive in any form or repeatedly unfaithful and refuses to accept responsibility and change their behaviour, then of course you should divorce.

So you want your child to be unhappy? For the sake of what?

I think I agree.

Children are very ego-centric, they don’t spend a lot of time thinking about the relationships between other people. If the home atmosphere is pleasant, their routine is stable, and they know THEY are loved: job’s a good’un.

Think of being brought up by your mum and auntie, or father and grandmother, for example.

There doesn’t have to be sex and romantic love in the household for a child to be happy.

@DragonFly98 "deserving to be happy" isn't reason to leave?

H doesn't drink, cheat, lie and he cooks and cleans. He goes to work every day. He loves our kids. Today he spent the afternoon teaching DC to ride a bike. Great guy!

But an example today of what i mean...I have hurt my lower back doing some volunteer work. I'm walking around wincing a bit and it's uncomfortable to sit or lift. Tonight my 2 year old is up and down the stairs, refusing to go to bed.

On the 4th time I asked H "would you mind carrying DS to bed this time. My back is killing me carrying him going up and down the stairs". He replied "ah DS will only cry because he wants you to do it. Don't blame me. You're too nice to your kids". He doesn't even look at me as he speaks.

DS doesn't care. He's not thinking "isn't it strange that my dad doesn't care about my mum enough to help her out". He is going to sleep blissfully happy. His parents together. In his bedroom.

But should I put up with such a lack of care or concern from H on a daily basis? And my 2 year old doesn't understand now but when he's 15 he might notice and treat future girlfriends with similar lack of care?

Yes adults deserve to be happy, but then so do children.

Personally, I think that so long as life is not intolerable for the parents and so long as the children ARE happy, it’s better to keep the household together until they’re 17/18.

It’s different if there is domestic abuse of course, or if the relationship is having a negative impact on the children.

At 2 he's not going to notice. Depending on his emotional development by 9 he might and by 12 he really will and by 14 it'll be internalised and impacting on his emerging self identity and sense of self inflicted relationships to others.

The alternative relationships you describe still require love , or at least like, respect, consideration,decency for them to work well.

It's rare for those things to still be present when a couple is only together "for the kids".

@Allthesea I guess people's version of "intolerable" looks v different. Living with someone who doesn't care about me feels intolerable at times. I don't think there needs to be abuse for it feel intolerable.

But in the same breath home is the kids sanctuary too and step parents/siblings can mean feel intolerable too I guess.

@hettie I do understand what you mean. My older DS (6) is very very affectionate to me. Talks about taking care of me a lot (which I tell him he doesnt need to). I worry sometimes he says all that stuff because H doesn't. But I'm sure I'm projecting

I do know with 100% certainity that I would hate for DS to treat me or his future partners the way H treats me.

Life can be intolerable with someone without there being physical abuse involved.

Honestly, this. It doesn't even have to have been a painful separation. Mine separated when I was in early primary school, so I was young. My feelings changed over the years and of course I accepted it and then when I had my first child a whole set of new, very painful feelings came out of nowhere. Both remarried many years ago and in theory everyone is happy, but in honesty I would always have loved them to get back together, and still would.

I can imagine a sort of hypothetical arrangement where two partners respect and care about each other without feeling romantic love or sexual attraction and I can see how that might be better for kids than an acrimonious divorce. In that situation I can see good arguments for staying rather than breaking up to pursue the romantic dream.

I don't think that is what you are describing though, OP. The incident with you asking him to carry DC for example- that is gratuitously uncaring and disrespectful. You talk about housemates but housemates don't act like that. People don't have to be ranting and raving for there to be unhappiness in the home and it sounds as if you are all aware that things aren't right including your children. I'd challenge the idea that your DC don't mind or notice especially if your older LO is trying to play the caring role and looking after you. He/she sounds lovely but a child should not have to feel that is their job.

Agree…. He is actively uncaring rather than indifferent. A housemate would help you out if you were in pain.

@Maidez Yes, i agree, things like the carrying DC example happen all time. I'm used to them and they seem fairly undramatic to me. It happens all the time It used to cause fights. But not for a very long time now. After I finally put the kids to bed we actually had a reasonably nice evening together - chatting & watching telly.

DC is also demanding of course like any young child. He is very childlike. He's not worrying about me or anything which would be awful he did. But when I put him to bed he often comes out with some strange & quite intense things about looking after me when he's bigger and it makes me wonder.

But then just the post above you @Maidez is someone whose whole life has been affected by their parents split. Who still wishes their parents were together as an adult. I think sometimes we tell ourselves that 'kids just want their parents to be happy' but there are stories on here that show it's not that simple and plenty of kids/people just want their parents together.

You're right, kids do not give a toss about whether their parents love one another, so long as they are not screaming at and abusing one another. They just want peace and stability. Absolutely.

Historically, most children have not seen what we consider loving behaviour from today's perspective. It's the exception that we live in such incredibly fortunate times - historically and globally speaking - that this is even a consideration for anyone. Up until very recently, kids were generally lucky if their parents weren't actively abusive and tried to help them get through childhood.

That doesn't mean anyone should have to live in a loveless marriage if it is making them miserable, but it needs to be accepted as reality and taken into account, for sure. So anyway, you are correct.

And you are also correct that they WILL blame you for removing their peace and stability if you do. That's just reality. How long they will blame you for, or how that will turn out is anybody's guess.

However, if you are in a sexless marriage, there's a good chance your husband is looking elsewhere for sex, so it might not be a low conflict marriage forever. Even if you are ok with that, men who cheat (and many men in a no sex marriage would) are easily persuaded to dump their families. After all, many men cheat, and dump their families, even when they are in a loving marriage with a decent sex life.

Men are by far the more selfish of the sex. Just because things are good for your kids, don't assume your husband will care enough about their safety and stability to leave the status quo standing, if he decides his personal wants are not being met.

And you would be well advised to have finances stashed away and a back up plan for that happening. Sex binds a couple together, love and affection too. You are in a partnership, and men are selfish even when they receive love and affection.

And if that time comes, don't be persuaded to pretend that he is a great man and you're just not together anymore to try to spare your kids.

DO tell them, if and when that happens, what he did, calmly and rationally. Obviously, not using them for therapy or whatever - but just tell the simple truth.

If he cheats and/or dumps you all, do explain that it is HIS doing that you are not together. I've seen too many women take the hit for men's crap behaviour to protect their kids and end up with the blame themselves for things they didn't do, and with their kids resenting them when it was the man's doing. It also sets kids up for higher expectations of good behaviour from the man than they can reasonably expect - and that can be heartbreaking.

Not to mention it's really confusing for kids, they just don't get it when suddenly their parents are no longer together for absolutely no perceivable reason.

Anyway, I digress. Your instincts are correct. Kids want stability and peace and safety. That's their meat and drink. Love and all the rest between parents is just dessert.

I think a lot of what you say is true @justafleshwound2024 - I think they will blame me. I would expect their dad to blame me openly to them for many years.

In terms of my specific situation - I wouldn't care if he slept with other women at all. It would do nothing to me emotionally.

Financially - we don't have shared accounts and I work full time, I also manage & pay for 90% of house costs, so if he up and left tomorrow - emotionally the DC would be very affected of course, but financially they wouldn't notice a thing.

There's a reason why we don't leave decisions like this to children.

Only you know whether you can tolerate living like this, OP, and you are better placed than us to say whether your LOs are picking up on it all. But you do sound as if you have accepted some things as normal that most people would not accept. I also think you need a lot of confidence in your own resilience to think you can continue living an intolerable life for the next 18 years without losing yourself completely, with all that could entail- it's not just a question of deciding to suck it up as there is a limit to what even the most self-abnegating person can take. Perhaps a carefully-done split might be better than that?

If you do decide to stay, what can you do to make your life more bearable? Friends/family, therapy, time away from your partner?

I'd add that you are allowed to place some value on your own well-being. Almost all mums want to put their children first and it is admirable but that doesn't mean putting yourself nowhere. Your happiness is a factor, just as you would want your DC to treat their happiness as a factor if they were in your shoes.

I am very glad you are not financially dependent on him. I also don't mean to imply you don't have a right to be happy. Only you can decide if you can continue to stand it, or want to try, and only you can decide if your kids blaming you is something you can bear. It's a bad position to be in, I'm sorry.

Well yes. I said “so long as life is not intolerable”. I don’t think anyone should live in abject misery.

At the same time, it was the adults who decided to get into a relationship, decided to get married and decided to have children, so as far as is reasonable (and I realise every case is unique) it is the adults who should bear the consequences of those decisions.

When the whole family are unhappy, the right decision is very obvious (or should be).

But if the children are currently happy, the decision is very difficult, as the OP will have to weigh up the likely lasting harm on herself of staying in the relationship, against the likely lasting harm that separation could have on the children.

The OP clearly recognises the dilemma, and ultimately only she and her husband know just how unhappy they each are, and how messy & upsetting for the children a divorce is likely to be.

And I do agree that “children just want their parents to be happy” is a very convenient way for parents to convince themselves that what they want aligns with what is best for their children. That is definitely not always the case.

The fact is that children have no power or agency in the situation whatever and have no choice but to go along with and make the best of the life their parents create for them.

OP, I'm so sorry. You are not happy. Your kids will know this, on some level.

He will make it impossible to split in a healthy way

That in itself is very sad. It makes it sound like you are a hostage, staying not out of your own free will but by coercion.

I'll be honest, divorce is not easy for children. It hurts. They do suffer. But there is a different kind of suffering than the suffering of uncertainty and dishonesty, if that makes sense?

I don't know that it's possible to spare your children suffering, but you are able to model integrity, honesty, courage, etc.

Thank you @ArabellaScott if I was to live by integrity, honesty and courage, there is no doubt that I would be leaving.

No one can make the decision for me - god, i wish they could. I think its telling I'd be relieved if he left. Which makes me think i am I most concerned by the guilt/responsibility of the decision - which I'm not sure reflects v well on me.

It seems a lot of people whose parents who divorced wish they were still together, and a lot of people whose parents did not - wish they had.

Maybe we always imagine things would have been better of this or that had happened differently.

Thank you wise mumsnetters x

OP it's s possible that your thread title has drawn posters who were very affected by their parents splitting up.
Every situation is different and children are very resilient. Yours sound very young ,2 and 6 ?
My partner is uncaring , that bit of his brain doesn't seem to exist. I suspect due to his upbringing.
I saw no option but to stay and as others have said ( ?@Maidez ) there really is a limit to what you can bear.
I did lose myself and took to drink. I'm not saying that this will happen to you , for me it was the feeling I had no agency , no choice.
I'm through that now , our son is an adult but lives at home and I despair that he will ever have a close relationship .
My partner and I are still living together and his lack of care is the norm for me now .
A recent hospital stay saw him wondering if I wanted him to visit and whether I needed an escort home.
I got the latter as physically it was needed. I was relieved that he chose not to visit .
We cope ,I imagine you would ,I don't know what affect our relationship has had on our lovely son .

I'm 47. I still wish my parents were together after 30 years they spilt.

I’d be interested to know whether the people who wish their parents were together mean “together and happy” or “together no matter how unhappy”. Strongly suspect the former.

PS, my parents stayed together. I'm in the wish they hadn't because he was actually abusive camp - though I've long since moved past all that.
So my pointing out that you're right, kids really don't care if parents love each other so long as they're not abusive, is based on experience, education and life - not wish fulfilment