To think kids don't care if their parents love one another?

[AnotherDayAnotherDoll]

I was reading a boook "Stay or Leave- which is a book that discusses the indecision about whether to leave a relationship

In the chapter about how to consider kids when leaving relationship - it argued that really all kids want to do is avoid conflict. So doesn't matter whatever the set up - if it's predictable & kind & v little conflict - it doesn't matter all that much whether you are together or not.

And if you're in loveless & sexless marriage but where people are perfectly civil - most kids don't truly care/are interested as long as long as it doesn't affect them.

What are people's views?

I hvae some sympathy with this view. I'm not sure I ever considered (when I was a child) whether my parents loved one another or whether they were just functioning housemates who parented together.

It's a tricky one. Are kids happier in a home where its their biological mum and dad, together and they love each other? Yes probably. But that isn't the choice. Are kids happier with separated parents, who then go on to have new/blended families and more kids/step parents? So feel pushed out, 2nd best, no secure home? Or are kids happier with their mum and dad staying together with no love, but no hate and muddling on. I hate to say it, but I think kids probably prefer the latter.

If you really really want to give the best oportunity in life to your children, you need to give them an example of a respectful loving partnership, plus good parenting, responsibility, values and learning coping strategies.
Of course, all this is better achieved with parents that respect and love each other. There is no need for mad passion, at all.
But if you do show your partner contempt, that is a bad example that will have a deep effect on your children. You may think they do not notice, but they do.
I am not saying that children will be happier in a blended family setting than with two parents "living as housemates", but that children living with separated parents that are civil and respect each other will have the chance to find an example of how to develop a fullfilling relationship elsewhere and be happier in the long term.

I'm in the same situation OP and like you I want to make my decision one way or another and not be tossing it up for the next 15 years.

My dh and I don't argue, we don't care about each other's opinions so there's no need. I've tried to make things better but he isn't interested in talking or any conversation, affection or sex. And he isn't bothered that he isn't bothered, if you see what I mean. So there's not much more I can do.

However any day I read a thread on here about some horrible man, I know it could be a lot worse. He is a good father and house mate in terms of doing his share of the house work.

To think I'll go the next 40 years without a hug, kiss or compliment feels really depressing. But if we split I still won't have that.

I've talked to my dh about it. He ignored me at first (literally ignored me as if I hadn't spoken). Eventually I basically forced him. He said completely unemotionally that he's fine either way, he's happy if he split or if we stay together he's also fine with it.

What's so weird about it? My parents split up when I was young. I would have loved for them to live civilly in one house so that I had a family home. I know from work that the vast majority of children from 'broken' homes wish this too.

Thinking about this I don’t think divorce would have fixed the problem for me either - my parents were self centred arses a lot of the time - whether we were enduring a life spent with them communicating badly in the same house or communicating badly post divorce - the fact would remain - their interactions were slways awful and always had a massive impact, they should not have been together and they should not have been parents.

This. I'm one of 6 and we all begged my dm to leave him at some point. Living in a household where the basis for life is indifference, is miserable. It's not healthy.

"To think I'll go the next 40 years without a hug, kiss or compliment feels really depressing. But if we split I still won't have that"

@FruitFlyPie

I know what you mean. But I think living with someone who should be showing you affection and doesn't, is far harder than just being single.

When I go to bed with H and we lie silently ignoring one another - it feels really sad. When he's out and I go to bed alone - it feels like heaven 😂

I was in a marriage where we tolerated each other. We were both unhappy and it was reflected in how we spoke to each other and the children. We were grumpy and snappy a lot of the time and it showed. After we split I unexpectedly met someone quite wonderful. I’m much much happier, have a smile on my face, and am willing to go the extra mile to have an adventure. My kids may not have understood romantic love but they did notice a change in me, and how much more fun I was. We are also modelling what a healthy, happy, secure and loving relationship where we support each other, looks like, and for that alone, I am very grateful. My partner doesn’t play the father figure, but he has been a really positive influence on their lives and they adore him.

The issue with the last one is that eventually hate, or at least resentment does start to slowly seep in.

Yes, this is my experience. My parents stayed together ‘for the kids’. It was always apparent to me that they didn’t have a loving relationship, although there was no arguing and they were always civil. However by the time I was 16 it was very very clear that tensions had risen, and in the end my mum had an affair. Then it was like a bomb exploded really. So I had the experience of them staying ‘for the kids’, followed by a nasty split then having to navigate graduations/weddings/birth of grandchildren etc with my mum’s OM involved. I’m sure it would have all been easier if they’d have split civilly when we were younger, instead of leaving it to the point of anger and resentment.

I think if parents split but keep it civil and don't involve new partners until the children are adults then splitting is preferable to staying in a loveless marriage. However that doesn't usually happen. Usually there is bitterness and trauma for the children followed by years of feeling second best when new children come along.

Everyone's experiences, children and adults , are different but I would add to your dilemma @AnotherDayAnotherDoll and counsel thinking about the future and when neither of you are employed.
I'm mid 70's and I'm very lucky in that my partner goes out every day doing courses and keeping himself occupied.
The biggest stumbling block for me is that I lack respect for him.
We too live largely parallel lives ,I have good friends and I'm well able to keep myself occupied.
I don't feel lonely but I do feel massive relief when he goes out .
You may be able to develop strategies for the retirement years ahead but I think if you don't like him much or respect him your life will become harder.
Maybe the answer is to plough on but plan for the future separation. Make sure you have enough money to live separately later in life .
Good luck with it all.

H doesnt like me all that much. He doesn't particularly listen or have interest in me. I feel the same to him. I do guess that living with someone who doesn't particularly like you is pretty awful for your wellbeing and self esteem.

But I also get the points about feeling grateful to parents who don't split. I have mixed feelings. I'm grateful to be parents for not splitting as would have hated to have two homes but equally if my mum had left I wouldn't blame her - I think they have only survived because my dad spent 90% of his time at work.

@Thisoldheartofmine I think about this a lot. Or if I became unwell - I wouldn't rely on him for anything. I don't think we would be kind to one another in older age. And yes, a long weekend with no plans is much worse for me than busy weekly routines.

The other side of the gratefulness is that some adult children feel betrayed and like their childhood was a lie when they find out later. Especially in cases where they thought their parents had a good marriage and want to emulate that for themselves. Then divorces, affairs , whatever start coming out as "they're grown now" and it shakes their foundations to the core.

Rock and hard place this one, and no clear answer.

I have never known loneliness as the loneliness I felt in an unhappy marriage, so I really do feel for you. I'm very indecisive, a settler and a not rock the boat-er (really selling myself here) but I'm "lucky" in the sense that my ex made it easy for even me to make a decision (and even still it took me years) by going to prostitutes during drug and gambling binges, and sometimes stealing in order to do so. (and if you met him, never in a million years would you guess that behind the charming, educated, social veneer).

Obviously my DC doesn't know this and would love us to still be together, although they do know their Dad's personality enough to get it, they still would wish we were together.

We are probably unusual in that, even after 8 years, we have both dated other people but only ever on a casual basis and we have not had other people living with us. And we do do things together for the DCs sake, go to parents evening, school plays, sports matches so can put on a united front when needs be. DC would still say, We just wish we could have you both in the same house, to see you both, rather than splitting time from one to the other. But in my heart I know what that would look like and know it would be horrendous, but even so, I still feel very sad that I haven't been able to give them what they want. I made the right choice but even when it is the right one, it is still difficult and sad all round. So I don't think I've helped at all, but @AnotherDayAnotherDoll I hope you find your happiness.

They care. My XH left 6 years ago after leaving me for a woman from work. It caused and still causes much turmoil amongst my kids. And it changes as they get older, they understand more, so the hurt evolves. They care.

I knew a couple whose marriage was over but they agreed to coparent amicably for the sake of their kids. They respected each other and never made the kids into a battle ground. The kids naturally fell into a pattern of being roughly 50/50 with each parent and they got on well enough to spend things like Christmas and birthdays together rather than falling out over whose turn it was. I don't think it was always easy for them and they probably had to remind themselves of their vow to stay amicable at times but it worked out. The kids are now grown up and have a great relationship with both sides. Parents new partners attend events such as grandkids parties too. This has got to be so much better then staying for the kids and seething with resentment. (I fully appreciate that it's not possible in all situations, my own included).

This is no way to live though. Sharing a bed with someone you dislike this much.

I know there is a stigma to separate bedrooms still but I would thoroughly advocate for it if you possibly can. My marriage is loving and very respectful but we still love sleeping separately. You're not really only seeing each other 1-2 hours a day if you're sharing a bed for another 8h. Is it pure mechanics - no earthly way to get separate bedrooms even by eg converting a downstairs room or squeezing a bed into an office - or is it driven by keeping up appearances?

Families come in so many variations these days. Sleeping separately seems such a minor quirk in the grand scheme of things.

I wish my parents had loved & respected each other. I think it's very hard when positive behaviours aren't modelled to you in reality life, and you then have to look to books/TV/SM to try and work out what a successful relationship looks like. And obviously then you aren't seeing the real thing.

This is completely accurate. My parents divorced when I was little. I didn't care why they divorced, I just wanted them to be together more than anything in the world. Small children don't have the emotional capacity to investigate their parents' emotions, they simply care about their family being together.

I do agree that all children (in non abusive households) want their parents together and don't care/have awareness of a relationship that is stale/civil.

However, the subconscious impact may only be felt in later life when people find themselves settling for shitty relationships (just as I have always done)

@Colombie we have a lovely spare room. We are pretending to ourselves

@vapourtrail I'm so sorry for what you went through. Thank god you're out of that and it's all settled down. Will you ever tell DC?

I cared.

When I was a teenager, my mother told.me she didn't know if she'd ever loved my father. That broke me, in a lot of ways. I couldn't tell my father this, but I still had to live with him and have no idea if he knew his wife of 20+ years didn't love him and possibly never had. I had to grapple with the sudden guilt that my mother had stayed in a loveless marriage supposedly for my sake, and if I didn't exist noth my parents could have found someone to make them really happy.

I wish she'd never told me. It still ranks as one of the worst moments of my life.

I don't even think it is love so much as it's just respect for each other and no abuse.