To think kids don't care if their parents love one another?

[AnotherDayAnotherDoll]

I was reading a boook "Stay or Leave- which is a book that discusses the indecision about whether to leave a relationship

In the chapter about how to consider kids when leaving relationship - it argued that really all kids want to do is avoid conflict. So doesn't matter whatever the set up - if it's predictable & kind & v little conflict - it doesn't matter all that much whether you are together or not.

And if you're in loveless & sexless marriage but where people are perfectly civil - most kids don't truly care/are interested as long as long as it doesn't affect them.

What are people's views?

I hvae some sympathy with this view. I'm not sure I ever considered (when I was a child) whether my parents loved one another or whether they were just functioning housemates who parented together.

It's not about whether they care or not, it's about whether they know or not.

If you can co-parent wonderfully with massive respect for each other then it's fine, your kids don't know that your marriage is in actuality sexless/loveless.

Thing is though it's extremely hard to fool kids into thinking everything is great when it isn't.

I think the argument for “stay and just muddle on as housemates” assumes that you’re both on the same page and can rely on each other to commit to maintaining the status quo harmoniously for the next X number of years of your DC’s childhoods. It doesn’t factor in that if you don’t love or respect each other and there’s no sex, the likelihood of one of you having an affair / meeting somebody else and making a unilateral decision to leave is vastly increased - and then your DC will have the rug pulled from under them on much less amicable terms and on a different timescale than if the two of you actively made the decision to separate together on the basis of mutual understanding and cooperation. You can’t prepare your DC for coming home from school one evening and dad announcing that he’s met somebody else and is moving out tomorrow / dad has found out mum has met somebody else and so dad is leaving right away.

This.

My BIL is now living with a new partner. They have five kids between them (both have primary residence) in a three-bed house. Two of the kids have SEN. There is a lot of conflict.

I'm doubtful that this is better than a household where the kids are loved and happy with parents who have a harmonious, but more of a "friend"- like relationship.

I’m not sure. My kids are very invested in us loving each other. They love that we do love each other and are mildly affectionate. They often check in with us “do you love mummy/daddy?”
I also remember as a child being very anxious my parents would split up and feeling so happy if they ever kissed etc.
There was conflict in my house tho.

I don’t know, my parents were civil to each other and there was no arguing but I could always tell that they didn’t really want to be together. They were different to most of my friends’ parents; there was no affection, no tenderness towards each other. Even when I was young I could tell it wasn’t right. They stayed together ‘for the children’, then when I was a teen my mum had an affair. I wish they’d just split sooner.

I think my parents clear affection for each other contributed to a warm and secure childhood.

Last night my husband gave me a hug and a kiss in the kitchen when our very little kids were eating their dinner and they both looked so happy, so I think they do care, yes.

Well my sons Dad and I never actually lived together at any time during our 10 year relationship. So I wonder how that placed him as when we were no longer a couple nothing actually changed for him.

BTW we still get on well ( DS is now at uni) both of us in long term relationships and get on fine with each other's partners.

I don't think kids care if it's romantic fairy tale love or just platonic true friendship but not more as long as there's lots of respect. It's rows, anger, playing parents off against each other, affairs etc that are bag for children. If you can't spend time together, show respect and be genuine friends then for your kids sake it's time to leave

My parents were affectionate to each other often. Then other times had explosive rows and arguments: mum would be crying etc. so probably part of this is that I really don’t like drama, and don’t believe that physically showing affection necessarily means that it’s a stable, healthy relationship

@AnotherDayAnotherDoll You say your children don’t know you don’t kiss or cuddle, but if they aren’t seeing you kiss, cuddle, be affectionate, they never learn that actually that’s what a healthy loving relationship looks like. I grew up with parents who were (and are) very in love, cuddles in the kitchen, kisses for hello/goodbye (everything really, obviously not inappropriate infront of kids kisses but kisses all the same), bringing each other home little treats “just because”, holding hands in the supermarket, date nights, openly complimenting each other, chatting about their days over dinner etc, that’s what love and a healthy relationship looks like. I learned that from watching them. If I grew up in a home with parents who just tolerated each other and were civil for us, would I have grown up and accepted a partner who gave me the bare minimum? Ignored me of an evening? Never brought me some sweets or flowers home just because? Never complimented me or took me on a date? Maybe. Because I would have grown up thinking that’s what “happy” looks like.

I disagree with a few posters.

"Being stable, communicating well and being respectful is necessary whether you’re together or not."

I'm not sure I agree, in that many divorced parents aren't that civil, don't communicate well, so it isn't necessarily the norm, for all parents, whether they are together or not.

It's hard to fake respect for someone though. The kids know that DH and I are on the same team. If you're just friendly housemates, even if you're having a laugh and having fun, I think the lack of respect would seep through in interactions - when you're asking them where your clean socks are or when you're discussing who is going to cook tea.

Mine loved each other but were also unhappy together. I don't think either would have managed lone parenting, though! I think it depends massively on the circumstances and temperaments involved.

The love and fun of my parents' marriage was central to my happy, secure childhood. When my DBs and I were still at primary school someone unexpectedly left my DF some money. It was enough for a romantic week in Paris. My DBs and I were farmed out to various friends and my parents set off.

I was very touched to know my parents were still so in love they wanted to spend that week together. It made me happy.

My DBs have both been married for more that 30.years. I was with my darling DH for 17 years until he died early. You learn about making marriage work - and who to choose - by example.

However if there's bitterness, abuse or contempt then it's definitely best to part. A friend hung on far too long because she was sure her boys needed their dad. When, after years of abuse and misery, she finally decided to divorce - and told the DC - all three wrapped their arms around her and asked why it had taken her so long.

Yes it matters. Obviously kind and civil is better than at each others throats but my experience of growing up with my parents who utterly adored one another (and still do) has had a massive impact on my life. They prioritised each other and this total stability made me feel safe and secure. They were always on the same team and were openly affectionate.

It has helped me massively in identifying a good partner and having high standards for what I needed and expected, especially once we had a child.

Honestly? I agree op. I was a child, I didn't really have any concept of what romantic love or sexual attraction meant, for the most part I simply didn't notice my parents relationship.

I'd have noticed if one or other was very unhappy or there were a lot of rows.

Im 100% certain that my children would much rather live in a home with DH and I amicably co-parenting as friends, than for us to separate and form romantic partnerships with other people, even if old enough to understand that might make us happier or more fulfilled as individual adults.

My parents divorced when I was a baby so my normal was that my parents didn’t like each other. I remember being about 9 and thinking that my dad and step mum weren’t in love any more because they’d been arguing. I was too young to understand they were both tired, raising kids and just in the phase where you need to work a bit harder.

I was probably about 11 though when I started noticing the difference between friends parents, that some would talk to each other and listen, some would kiss. Some wouldn’t. I didn’t really understand what it meant then but I could see the differences. I was probably about 14 when I started to recognise when my friend’s parents were still in love or just going through the motions or in relationships they absolutely shouldn’t be in. It was at that point that I started to form an opinion on what I wanted and didn’t want in my relationships.

So I think it depends entirely on the age of the kids if they can recognise love and healthy relationships and whether they want to reflect that in their future.

And if you're in loveless & sexless marriage but where people are perfectly civil - most kids don't truly care/are interested as long as long as it doesn't affect them.

Surely if there is no love and no sex, then that’s going to create tension and resentment which kids will pick up on.

If there is still lots of respect and love for each other but perhaps not in a sexual way and both adults are truly ok with the situation, then I think it’s fine.

"Im 100% certain that my children would muchrather live in a home with DH and I amicably co-parenting as friends, than for us to separate and form romantic partnerships with other people, even if old enough to understand that might make us happier or more fulfilled as individual adults"

@Pin0cchio - this is how i feel in a nutshell.

Of course being in love matters - and some descriptions here of peoples parents are so lovely to read (and nothing i recognise in my own relationships!) and it is obviously the idea.

But if you don't have that (but you get on as friends) - I think splitting can turn a non-conflict relationship into a v bitter/nasty one - and I think that is very hard for kids. Harder than your parents not kissing in the kitchen.

My parents split up when I was little. They never argued in front of us and it came as a huge surprise. I didn't care/notice that they weren't madly in love, they were nice to each other and both there when I went to bed each night and when I woke up in the morning.

I was very lucky in that I had a great stepmum and my mum waited until I'd left home to start another serious relationship, meaning there was no drama. Neither parent had more children so I didn't have to deal with that either. But despite a perfectly amicable set up, I secretly wished they'd get back together (even now in my 30s I'd secretly love to have one 'home' to return to).

Obviously I want them to be happy, and I'd never admit to these feelings to either of them, or to my stepmum. But I would definitely stay with my husband if we ended up with a flatmate like situation (obviously it would be different if there was abuse/we hated each other as that would be damaging in a different way).

I think you have to like each other and genuinely be friends, yes. You said you don't respect him so that sounds like it might not be the case?

When you don’t love eachother it’s bloody obvious and was to me growing up! My parents didn’t argue but were both miserable and negative and still are 30 years later as they haven’t split. There was never a warm loving atmosphere and without specifically saying it, my mum made me think all men are pricks and lazy and not to be trusted! I am quite perceptive though but so is my son!!
My DH and I are happy and in love and make it clear to my son that we are happy and love each other. We are affectionate and make him feel safe and secure.
So I think if parents aren’t happy and in a loving relationship you’re better apart for everyone’s sake!

My parents hated each other and used to cast up that they stayed together for the kids - obviously they didn’t, they were just too scared to be on their own.

I don’t think it necessarily matters if parents have romantic love, but if people live together who don’t really like each other anymore, it quickly turns to hate and resentment. That’s very bad for kids imo

My parents weren’t in love and I didn’t care other than not wanting to end up like them. What it did teach me though, is that it’s normal to put up with not loving your partner if it means your life is convenient. So I’ve ended up stuck with someone I don’t love.