To think kids don't care if their parents love one another?

[AnotherDayAnotherDoll]

I was reading a boook "Stay or Leave- which is a book that discusses the indecision about whether to leave a relationship

In the chapter about how to consider kids when leaving relationship - it argued that really all kids want to do is avoid conflict. So doesn't matter whatever the set up - if it's predictable & kind & v little conflict - it doesn't matter all that much whether you are together or not.

And if you're in loveless & sexless marriage but where people are perfectly civil - most kids don't truly care/are interested as long as long as it doesn't affect them.

What are people's views?

I hvae some sympathy with this view. I'm not sure I ever considered (when I was a child) whether my parents loved one another or whether they were just functioning housemates who parented together.

Exactly.

My parents chose the option of staying together even though they didn't love each other. They think they made the right decision by their children, and talk positively about the happy family that we had.

It was fine when I was a child but as an adult honestly (and I would never voice this IRL because it sounds dramatic and self absorbed) I think that their decision has ruined my life. It have me a really bad model for a relationship. I settled for someone who seemed fine and who I had a civil relationship with. didn't even realise that I should be aiming to fall in love. I don't know how to love: I don't know how to show love, how to accept it, how to expect it from a partner, and I don't know because it was never shown to me. My relationships are all awful, cold and distant and combative. None of my siblings have ever had a nice normal relationship.

I've told this story on here before, but I was late 20s (and already married with DC) having dinner with friends when my friend's husband gently leant over and brushed a crumb off my friend's face, and she smiled at him, and they carried on talking to the group. It was like an epiphany. My eyes literally filled with tears because I had never seen adults in an established relationship show little loving gestures like that, outside of the initial flirting stage of a relationship. I realised in that moment that my parent's relationship, my own relationship, and the relationship I'm modelling to my own children is a complete fucking sham.

No, this is just something that people who stay together ‘for the kids’ tell themselves.

Family is your child’s first and main model. If you’re not happy, it shows, and they have nothing good to model/emulate.

If I split with DH I will not ever subject my DC to a stepfather though. So how would splitting up give my DC the good model?

I am in the same situation as OP and it fills me with despair every single day. It feels like I've fucked up so badly already, so early on in my DC's life, and there is nothing I can do now to turn back time and give them the good loving relationship to emulated.

The thing is, you’ll find plenty of examples of people saying ‘my parents stayed tone for the kids and it was shit’ and plenty of examples of people saying ‘my parents split and it was shit, I wish they’d have stayed together’. In reality, we don’t know if it would have been better if our parents split, and they don’t know if it would have been better if they’d stayed together. Those scenarios didn’t happen, so how can we know. You have to make the decision based on your individual circumstances. Nothing anyone can say will validate that decision, or otherwise. It’s a tough one.

Totally agree with @LadyHavelockVetinari re: not starting another relationship and therefore there's no modelling of any relationship.

I think people who are saying they wished their parents had separated are ignoring key aspects of adulthood. Could both parents afford to buy their own home or find a suitable/affordable rental? Would the kids have to move school and therefore leave all their friends and potentially their hobbies? Would money become a stressor.

It is so easy to say just leave but there are logistics to consider.

Would honestly have been worth it not to be forced to live with my abuser and witness him abusing my mother and then having her tell me that his abuse was how we knew he loved us, and enabling and accepting it was how he knew we loved him.

Of course, I responded that I didn't love him, in fact I hated him and I'd rather never get married than be stuck with someone like him, but you can imagine how that went down.

@LadyHavelockVetinari I relate to everything you've said so much. All of it. I have never been in relationship with that kind of gentle care or consideration as the story you describe. My parents also were functional, and close, but unloving - towards me and one another.

And now we are in the same boat. Saying our parents are (partially at least) to blame and yet we are still here - generational patterns. I regret marrying the man I married but divorce seems a special kind of hell and in all honesty, I have friends, a career, my kids are loved and reassured and supported, and there is no dysfunction at home. Yet DH is a housemate.

To give you an example - I had a job interview today. He has not remembered. And I haven't bought it up as I have no interest in talking to him about it.

I also agree about another man. I wouldn't do it to the kids. I have no trust in myself to be with someone either

People talk about modelling good relationships but what is that isn't a good option. If l leave DH we will be modelling toxic dysfunctional grown ups arguing over every little thing. He will make it impossible to split in a healthy way as he 100% doesn't want it.

My 5 month old stops what he's doing when my DH gives me a cuddle or kiss. Watches and giggles. Then demands picking up and tries to eat my nose 😅. What he does going forward is anyones guess, but they will always know. They model relationships off yours, feel like their childhood was a lie if you split once they leave.

@NonPlayerCharacter your scenario is different to what the OP describes because there was abuse and fear and anger which sounds horrendous. If your parents were two people who got on fine but weren't in love then it may have been better for them to stay together. So far removed from what you describe though. Sorry you've had it so hard. X

But you could be happy alone and show your kids what it’s like to be a strong independent role model?

Yes, this.

If you stay, the likelihood is your DC will follow in your shoes, as you followed in your parents shoes. That’s how cycles work.

Im not sure which is worse, tbh. I think I’d rather be alone than live a half-life. And alone is fine; not sure why you’ve jumped straight to ‘stepfather’. That’s quite telling in itself.

As a younger child I assumed my parents loved each other, as it was commonly believed back then (60w/70s) that marriages were based upon love. I'd have been very shocked and upset if I'd learned that they didn't.

@StarbucksQueen1 I do agree about that.

But it's scary to lose control over what may be shown by the x husband. So my X would settle down with another woman v quickly (who may or may not have children)

I think its naive to think that post divorce women can simply demonstrate strong independence rather than how messy/useless adults can be at grown up relationships.

I risk replacing quiet tolerance with a big old mess of new homes, step siblings, financial battles, blame etc.

Telling in what way? I started talking t about stepfathers because people were saying that part of the reason that unloving relationships damage children is that children don't get the benefit of having a loving relationship modelled to them. So I was trying to understand how breaking up resolves that problem, since surely a singleton is also failing to model a loving relationship.

@StarbucksQueen1 's point is an answer to this question, but I also think that there is a lot of emphasis on independence in our culture anyway so hopefully they won't get the message that marriage is better than independence. I'll think about this more though, maybe there is something to be said for showing that no marriage is often better than a mediocre one.

OP, I completely understand. The job interview example is something I've experienced too, maybe not outright forgetting but being disinterested in the lead up to it and unimpressed even when I got the job. Such a difference to how interested even mild acquaintances act. (By the way, I hope that it went well!)

I agree with it OP. I didn't care as a child if my parents loved each other, and certainly didn't care if they were having sex or not - I just wanted the stability of being a family and staying in the family home. I would have been absolutely devastated if my parents had split up at any point.

I would have hated, hated, hated my parents selling the house and having to move out not to mention having other relationships, potential stepsiblings and all that messiness.

Yes, posts like that are my worst fears being confirmed @takemeawayagain that the book is right - most kids would always choose their parents to stay together (unless there is abuse/fights/drinking etc).

Someone said up the thread that everyone situation is unique and there is no way of knowing the right thing to do. I hate it. It's taken over my entire life. Every waking hours I'm going over the situation in my head, reading books, it's relentless

@LadyHavelockVetinari interview went well thank you.

Yes, exactly.

I personally don't think it's in the children's best interest for the parents to embark on a new relationship, particularly when there are other children involved, which is nearly always the case. I think it's rare for children in 'blended' families to be happy about it.

So the alternative is to stay single... And then how are you modelling an 'in-love' relationship?

You're modelling the fact that a relationship is not the be all and end all, and that it's absolutely fine to be single...better, in fact, than being in a miserable relationship.

That message definitely needs to be given more.

MN is bonkers on this subject. Every couple I know is just muddling through for the sake of family harmony, including us. It works and everyone's happy. I stopped fancying DP years ago, that's life.

Obviously I should leave him, end up in a crap flat and see my kid half the time so that we can both have wild sex again with tinder dates. This will make all three of us happier 🙄

The exception of course is that if you fancy a married guy at work, and idly consider what it might be like to be with him instead, you'll ruin your kids secure, settled lives for a cheap shag, and they'll never forgive you. You'll be crying salty tears when you find out he leaves his dirty pants on the floor like your poor unloved husband does.

You couldn't make it up.

If half of marriages end in divorce, and a huge % of the ones that last are to "muddling through" - maybe the anti marriage lot are right? It only works for small minority?

@MorrisZapp definitely wouldn't leave for a crappy flat and Tinder dates. But I might leave to be in my own space and to not listen to him talk about potholes and the price of cheese. (I agree about the kids though)

Surely there is a difference between not fancying someone and not loving them, though? I suspect that the OP wouldn’t be posting if the issue was just that she didnt fancy her husband anymore. Or are you saying that everyone you know is in a loveless marriage? If so that’s sad.
I both love and fancy my husband, so we do exist.

@MorrisZapp everything you said 100%

I do love and respect my partner, he's a thoroughly decent man. But if we didn't have DS we'd have separated years ago. Mumsnet quite likes people staying together through thick and when it comes to cheating, but wants us to separate immediately when sexual or romantic feelings fade and die and we haven't met anyone else.

I love my house, I'm not moving out of it, and under no circumstances would either of us be willing to have DS half the time each. So we carry on, and it's absolutely fine.

As someone who left my DP of almost 8 years 3 years ago, I think it's true that DC just want their parents together as by the time they are in primary school, they know that as the norm.

My primary school age DC can only remember vague snippets of when we all lived together, and these days their Dad and I mainly communicate by email, and only ever see each other on my doorstep for contact handover.

Yet DC has started asking whether me and their Dad can do certain activities together. I always explain why not, but it does make me wonder what goes through DC minds about our relationship!

That’s my point though. You love and respect him. Entirely different situation to the OP.
I’m not ‘Mumsnet’ so I don’t think people should stay together through thick and thin when cheating is involved, and I don’t think people should immediately split when sexual and romantic feelings fade, either. But I do think a lot of thought has to be given to whether it really is feasible to stay with someone you dont love and respect, for the sake of your child. It’s a lot of years to live unhappily with someone you don’t love.