To think kids don't care if their parents love one another?

[AnotherDayAnotherDoll]

I was reading a boook "Stay or Leave- which is a book that discusses the indecision about whether to leave a relationship

In the chapter about how to consider kids when leaving relationship - it argued that really all kids want to do is avoid conflict. So doesn't matter whatever the set up - if it's predictable & kind & v little conflict - it doesn't matter all that much whether you are together or not.

And if you're in loveless & sexless marriage but where people are perfectly civil - most kids don't truly care/are interested as long as long as it doesn't affect them.

What are people's views?

I hvae some sympathy with this view. I'm not sure I ever considered (when I was a child) whether my parents loved one another or whether they were just functioning housemates who parented together.

Also, the people I know who have stayed with someone they don’t love for the sake of the kids have ended up splitting acrimoniously anyway when their kids are teens.

Agreed.

I think people on this thread are projecting.

Kids need stability most of all. Whether or not their parents are deeply in love is irrelevant to them

Do we read the same site? My experience is that cheating is zero tolerance on here, you should end your marriage and chuck him out at once no matter what the situation surrounding it and no matter what the nature of the cheating, but stale marriages are largely fine.

We don't all stop fancying our husbands either.

I begged my parents to get a divorce because they were horrible to each other and living in a house with so much conflict was horrendous. They stayed together until Dad died - mum never stopped hating him, never stopped bitching about him - he wasn’t a saint either - the two of them as a concept was just awful - I feel quite resentful at what they put us through.

role modeling the foundation of healthy partnerships.

I grew up in a pretty loveless family and it's impacted me massively. I genuinely couldn't understand why pp got married as they were so unhappy and constantly bickering. Or rather, my dad was always shouting at my mum and criticising her. And us. I longed for them to get divorced . I felt like marriage was a living death and vowed to never end up like her. I never got married and neither me not my 2 older sisters have ever had children.

So yes, it matters MASSIVELY. Such a stupid thing to say, has made me really angry actually.

Yes, that is a huge risk.

I do not love or respect or fancy my husband. However, we both love our children enormously and therefore muddle through with v few arguments to ensure the house is happy enough. The kids are cuddled and kissed every day. Sometimes they all make us cuddle on the sofa and I can feel the physical discomfort between H and I but we cuddle away and pretend.

Its like we are parenting parallel to one another. And I do worry that set up is time limited and maybe one day I'll snap and run to the hills.

@Appalonia I'm sorry you experienced that. But it's not what I was asking about. I was asking about loveless relationships with NO conflict. Imagine two vague friends/housemates parenting together.

Your parents relationship sadly sounds like it had a lot of conflict and aggression which of course is unacceptable and I agree divorce is only option in that scenario.

I think you are a very lucky outlier if you remain in a relationship that is loving for 20+ years. To my mind that is a kind of lottery win- If the bar for staying married was remaining madly in love most of us would be divorced.

obviously if the relationship is toxic then divorce is a positive step, but conversely I don’t think falling out of love is an acceptable reason for divorce on its own once you have kids. If your options are amicable but loveless marriage vs. Divorce, I do think staying together is better for the kids, assuming you can maintain decent mental health.

my parents separated twice, having reconciled for several years in between. It was noticeable when their relationship shifted from one of love to tolerance to barely contained animosity. The best years were when they were together and content (not necessarily in love) and brief windows when they were happy on their own immediately post separation (largely due to sudden decrease in tension). The worst years were just before separation, and also the years when they were dating/marrying other people. New partners and blended families are incredibly hard for children.

Tricky one. I actively wanted my parents to divorce when I was young. They fought terribly and it was very clear my father looked down on/barely tolerated my mother. They did divorce when I was a teen and I got the obligatory step mum and new sibling.

Until relatively recently, 5ish years, my parents were still toxic around each other and everything is harder having blended families, two households etc.

So I honestly dont know if it hindsight it would have been better for me and my siblings if they had stayed together.

I do know that my 7 year old loves us doing family things and often asks us to 'smoocy kiss' (a kiss on the lips rather than the usual forehead!) I think he definitely picks up on our loving relationship in a positive way.

It made me sad that my parents didn’t love each other. The few times I saw them be affectionate was so strange to me, made me feel awkward. And of course I struggled in relationships because I never knew how to act in one. I actually lost a good partner because I replicated what I saw my parents do as a child.

but I think it also depends on the child’s personality as well. My sister didn’t care about anything that was going on as long as she got what she wanted. She’s still the same way as an adult.

We don't all stop fancying our husbands either.

This. It’s quite sad to read how many people are telling themselves this normal and everyone is the same.

It was obvious from childhood that my parents didn't truly love each other. Maybe they did at one point but not in my memory. I remember thinking early on that it would never be me and my children would have parents who are in love with each other (they do).

I think kids do care and notice.

I think there are people who look at the way there parents did things and think it didn't do me any harm - or it was good enough for them, good enough for me. I looked at my parents and thought no chance in hell do I want to be like them - parent like them, live like them. I've always felt able to break the cycle, I've never felt compelled to follow other people into dysfunctional hell. I carved my own life and in a way, my parent's fuck ups were my inspiration to do things better. I love my husband, he's the only man I have ever loved, (before I dh every other single man I dated was a bit of rebellious fun I could never have fallen in love with any of them - I had no plans to marry) ds says he finds our relationship inspiring - knowing that it's not a fairy tale and people can love each other for life.
Whether that works out for my kids is luck as much as anything - maybe they won't feel as determined as I was not to have a broken relationship, maybe they'll have high expectations, maybe they'll be unlucky in love.

Yeah I massively agree with this. All the horrible fights, awkward tense atmosphere it was so clear to me my parents didnt like each other, let alone love each other. I have neverstoood how that resulted in 3 children.

But I do know that it made me super determined to marry someone I liked as well as love. DH is my absolute best friend and I just love spending time with him, our marriage isn't always amazing and sex is a huge issue but fundamentally we like each other and I think that really helps, and our boys see that everyday.

It is such a shame that others have felt compelled to follow their parents example.

Absolutely. I don’t mean to sound patronising or smug (although I’m sure I’ll be accused of it), but DH and I have been together for 18 years and have the added complication of a disabled child (plus 2 other children) meaning our lifestyle has changed hugely from pre children, but I would still choose him a million times over. The fact that posters are saying that most people they know are only together for the children and no longer love/fancy each other is shocking.

My friends who are with their partners because of the kids/finances/religious reasons are totally miserable, what a waste! If I found out my parents stayed together and were miserable to shelter me from divorce I'd be quite upset for them. I'd want my parents to be happy.

@Youdontevengohere you don't sound patronising or smug at all. i feel sad that i don't have that and have never had that. what you have is the ideal - being openly and authentically in love with your parent - what a wonderful thing for children to grow up around. However - i'm just still not convinced that divorce is better than growing up around indifference & co-habiting. maybe i'm wrong.

there seems v big diference of opinion on this thread alone. i guess if there was an easy answer - we would all be doing it. if someone could say to me 'leaving your husband is the best thing for your children' - i would be packing the bags now. but my gut tells me their world will go from secure & loving to shit & bitter. And i don't think i can do that to them.

I completely agree with you, it is a really really hard choice and only you know what is best for your family. I worry that you would end up in the ‘shit and bitter’ stage anyway after living with someone you don’t love or respect for so many years… it will take its toll. But you cross that bridge when you come to it.

You need to lay out what you're comparing your current situation to.

Will you and your husband honestly stay single until the children are in their 20s and can move out and live independently? Can you both afford houses with enough room for them locally so they don't have to change schools? What if your husband chooses to move away?

People whose parents stayed together saying they wish they split up aren't taking into account how shit step parents, step siblings, half siblings, never having a "home" just 2 houses, and once boyfriends and girlfriends come you're never really welcome in either.

Every single event in the persons life is marred by their parents splitting. Every birthday, graduation, wedding, illness, birth of children, children's birthdays... you have to make adjustments.

If I'm ever in hospital after giving birth for example, my mom would always bring my stepdad. I won't want him there right after giving birth but if I want to see her I have no choice.

Remember as well if he has partial custody, your children will be with him and his new girlfriends. She might be awful to your children and resent them for being in "her home" and taking away attention from "her little family" and there's nothing you can do about that. Please go read the step parenting board if you don't believe that. If you think your husband won't allow that, guess again, it's extremely common. My mom and her boyfriend resented me even eating and showering once a day. It was horrendous.

You'll also have to split Christmas and their birthdays. Christmas's for me since the divorce were shit and I've only stopped entirely dreading them now I have my own house and I'll stay home with my fiancé.

Not meaning to be harsh but you need to think about all this.

absolutely. speaking only for myself @Anxioustealady but that is all I think about.

OK. Again I'm really sorry if I sounded mean or made you upset but I wanted to offer a balance to all the people saying they wish their parents had split as if that's the end of the situation. I have experienced both sides of my parents being together and split, they haven't.

I agree with what you put in your OP "all kids want to do is avoid conflict. So doesn't matter whatever the set up - if it's predictable & kind & v little conflict - it doesn't matter all that much whether you are together or not.

And if you're in loveless & sexless marriage but where people are perfectly civil - most kids don't truly care/are interested as long as long as it doesn't affect them.". Honestly that sounds like an absolute dream compared to my childhood.

Sorry if you've already said but how old are your children? And how are you financially? Having some money will help because you can afford to stay in the same area and won't necessarily have to move a partner in to save money.

For me my dad gave my mom money each month for us and he massively resented that (and told us often) but she didn't spend it on us anyway. That really affected me and made me feel like a burden to everyone.

I'm sorry you're struggling in your marriage

@mitogoshi agree with this

We weren't the most demonstrative couple. Perhaps more so as we've aged. We do love one another and always have. The girls grew up in a house with parents who tended not to argue, were generally happy and respectful of each other. Affection was never an issue, lots of hugs and kisses for them. We both wanted them to grow up in a loving, caring and safe home. (We both came from loving homes).

I don't think it crossed their minds about mummy and daddy loving one another until they were older.

I have spoken to each of the girls about their childhood and the biggest compliment was they wanted their children to have as fun a childhood as they had.

I grew up in a very stable, peaceful home with almost no conflict between my parents. Also almost no demonstrations of love or affection (towards each other - there was plenty towards us kids).
What it means is that I've grown up with NO IDEA how to manage conflict, how to navigate a disagreement respectfully, how to show affection even when you're frustrated with someone or you have a different perspective to them. So now my marriage is basically the same as theirs. DH and I are polite and respectful to one another, there's no fighting or shouting... because we just don't discuss things we might disagree on. I'm so lonely and I hate that I'm teaching my children that it's normal. But I don't know how to change it.