FIL 'took' Our car!

[LostMyCar]

Evening all,

I'll start by saying that I've NC as I don't want this linked with my previous posts. This is a long one so I do apologise in advance...

Dh and I live abroad and will be visiting the UK for a couple of months next month. We've been looking for a cheap car to use for the month with the intention of reselling when we leave.

FIL has been kind enough to help with the search and the other night found a good deal. He went to view the car and arranged to buy it the next day. FIL had 1k of our money (from selling a car last year) and we transferred the remaining balance of the car over. We're excited that we've got a good deal and BIL mentions that he might want to buy the car off us when we leave. Great!

The next day DH gets a message from FIL to say that he and BIL are on the way to collect the car. All good. Then BIL sends a message to the group chat saying he's going to need to borrow our car whilst his car is getting an MOT. He doesn't ask, he assumes.

Bit of backstory - BIL (by Dh's own admission) is an immature man child who is often reckless and verbally abusive when he doesn't get his own way. He can't hold down a job and FIL is constantly bailing him out of messy situations. FIL is definitely his enabler.
DH says no I'm really sorry but I don't want you using my car. I'm not buying it for someone else to use. FIL gets angry at this as asks why BIL is good enough to pick the car up then? DH says he thought FIL would be driving our car and BIL would drive FIL's car back. Had he have known this wasn't the case, we could have asked someone else to collect the car.

Anyway, it's all blown into a huge argument. FIL phoned DH and did nothing but shout and scream. How can he not trust his brother? He's trying to get his life together! DH reiterated that he didn't want to upset BIL but he doesn't want him having access to our car. It ended with FIL telling DH to go fuck himself and to get someone to come and collect our car off his drive way that night. Whilst all this is going on, BIL sends a message to DH saying our car drives like a dream to further antagonise the situation.

I phone my parents and ask them (1.5 hour round trip) if they would mind collecting the car from FIL and driving it to MIL's house as she has space in her garage for it. My parents kindly agreed to do so. DH messages FIL to say that my parents will collect the car from him when he's ready. A few minutes later, FIL messages DH and says that the car isn't ours, it's his. He's keeping it and then he transferred our money back to us. So now we have no car.

We suspect FIL will end up giving BIL the car. We now also suspect that BIL was probably always going to use our car instead of his own (on its way out) secretly before we return to the UK.

AIBU to think FIL and BIL have both acted like twats? DH is really upset that his father has treated him this way and I'm furious at the way FIL has spoken to DH. I'm sure in time, DH will forgive them both which is fine but AIBU to want nothing more to do with them?

Thank you if you've made it this far 🙏

Lol at Bil winding it you up

It’s a cheap secondhand car !

Also lol at you having no car

sorry. Serves you right

I cannot believe how close your experience is to ours! We too live o/s (not UK) and decided to buy a runabout for our multiple trips back to DH's home country. In the meanwhile we were happy that his parents had the use of 2 vehicles...

One visit when back we noticed a lot of damage to the car's paneling below the front end and one side of front wheel. It turns out In laws had lent the car to DH's sister and ''somehow'' no one noticed it came back damaged. We were never asked if the car could go over to hers, would have refused as she and her older sons had multiple infringements and loss of licences. No one ever made good the repairs either...

In another visit, we left some bags and our DD's baby seat in the car as we intended to head out later. I went into the garage to find FIL throwing our stuff out of the car! I pointed out to him we were going out again, and he said he needed the car to fit his gardening tools (it was a hatch back) and we could take the other one. He didn't consult with MIL if she had any engagements either and off he went.

Personally I think you are lucky you have your money back. Chalk this up to experience and when you get the other one, don't keep it at the In laws.

you werent very nice, and they werent very nice
thats it

I think it depends on the bil tbh. One of mine I wouldn’t have a problem with. The other one I would. Sounds like fil spoils this particular bil and always has done and this is what’s behind it all.
Plus I don’t suppose it was for a couple of hours while he has a MOT done. He will be driving it about until the op and her dh come over.

@AnxiousRabbit

"OP and her DH are mostly annoyed because under the original plan they were paying for the car and hoping to get all the money back - at BILs expense."

Please explain your reasoning. Why would it be at BIL's expense?

@LostMyCar even said "We never expected or wanted BIL involved. He wasn't until he went with FIL to collect the car."

Your post was an hour or so after OP posted what I quoted- maybe you crossposted?

You all sound like twats.

In your eyes, BIL’s is good enough for you when you need the car to be collected but not good enough for you to return the favour by letting him use it while his car is being repaired.

You were the twats first. They’re being twats as a direct result of your twatty attitude.

Even if tax and insurance cost them £250 for the month, assuming they sell the car on again for £1500, they’re only £250 out of pocket. This is definitely cheaper than hiring a car for a month.

However, as this is only possible because of help from FIL & BIL, OP and her DH are being very unreasonable.

Is the car insured?

Whose name is on the insurance?

I think it’s hard to see it from one side but I do think that you and DH were rightly upset that his dad thinks he can enable BIL at your DH’s (and your) expense. It wasn’t very honest (or cost efficient) from the beginning if FIL was using your DH to finance a car he always really intended for your BIL. Had he been honest with his intentions, your DH could have said yes OK of course, ….or no thank you, please don’t go to any more trouble to find us a car.

It’s up to your DH how he handles it as they are his family. Your own parents were very good to agree step in at short notice and then not complain when they were no longer needed so I’d be a bit put out about on their behalf that they were messed about like that.

As for forgiving them eventually, I think you should take your DH’s lead on that and try to stay out of it except to support him.
I think YABU to want nothing more to do with them over this if your DH is able to make put his feelings to them clearly and then smoothe it over again with a better understanding between them all going forward.

I am on your side OP your in laws sound like really hard work. Learned a lesson there never to let them be involved in 'helping' again.

And to those saying why go to all this bother just hire... as someone who also lived abroad and came back for long periods in the summer, hiring was always expensive, but post covid is crazy. It's really common to either keep an old car off road with family or buy and sell one like this. We used to only hire for parts of our trip as some of the time we were in a city with decent transport. The best way to get cheaper hire was never to hire from the airport - always use smaller local branches. We also saved by not insuring a second driver (a pain in the ass at times, one year we both had to drive so I did find a company that capped the daily second driver charge to 7 days) and having our own car seats left in UK. Only take the basic insurance then get the extra excess insurance coverage from a third party - worldwide insure do an annual excess policy. Take the smallest car for the people (another reason not to hire from airport with all your luggage). If you cut back on all the add ons (which really stack up over a long hire period) and flex the dates more you might find something OP. Good luck.

Why should OP be expected to loan a car to somebody they considered to be feckless and irresponsible?

Like you would all be moaning your car out 🙄.

Also, if it's such a non issue, why didn't the Dad lend out his car?

I don’t understand how so many people think you’re being reasonable.

You’re happy for everyone to run around for you to make your life easier, but when they ask for something back to make their life easier you won’t do it even though it doesn’t impact on you whatsoever because you’re not even using the car at the moment.

But your interpretation of this is that they’re the ones being awkward.

This.

YANBU.
FIL and Bro are in the wrong here. Seems like the car was like a 'shiny new toy' that Bro now wanted.
What if your DH was not buying a car at that time, how would he have handled his MOT?

Because OP said BIL would buy it off them.
So they pay £2k upfront. Use it for 2 months, then BIL pays them £2k to keep it

I suspect FIL was more involved in this than your post suggests. Registering and insuring a car in the UK is extremely difficult if you are not a UK resident. So while I appreciate it was your money that paid for it, I suspect FIL saw it as his car.
Either way, it’s a car, and while I agree , assuming BIL would have free access to it was rude, it’s not worth agonising over at this point.

Presumably he’d have done something else but perhaps he felt that as he’d facilitated the collection of the car and the plan was for him to buy it afterwards and in between times the car is sitting empty, it’s a reasonable solution to the situation.

Yes this is what I thought reading the OP. It's a massive ask to choose and buy a car for someone. If bil was possibly buying it after the idea of him using it until you got here surely must have occurred to you. Not sure where I'd go from here.

I'm afraid op you coming across as very mean. What harm would it have done for bil to use the car whilst his car had its mot. You weren't there he already picked it up for you. Poor fil and bil have been running around getting the car for you for you to turn around and say no your bil can't drive the car. Yabu. Can't you hire a car for a month. Seems Abit ott.

None of those affect car driving ability. Other than he may verbally abuse people whilst driving ?

As PP have said, given the car they were buying was a drive away. 2 people were going to have to drive in 1 car to pick up the car and 1 of the 2 would drive it back.

If I was driving my car with someone to pick up a car, it makes sense for the other person to drive that car back and me to drive my own car.

So DH started this by kicking off about BIL driving his car back from pickup. Which was an eminently reasonable thing for FIL and BIL to have done.
The borrowing for MOT maybe could have been a separate discussion but also I can't see the harm in the OP. Subsequently of course they've revealed problems with alcohol which does change it

I’m guessing it won’t be just borrowing it for the MOT though that’s the thing. If op isn’t coming to the UK for another month bil will be driving it around until then. Not just for an afternoon while he has his Mot done.

The paperwork says who is the registered keeper of the vehicle, not the owner. They are not automatically the same.

The way BIL “asked” wasn’t polite. But I do think you were really petty for not letting him use the car for a couple of days.

Regardless if he was meant to be driving which car back - the fact remained that he did you a favour by going along with your FIL to pick you the car. It seems mean not to return said favour, even if you’d have preferred he didn’t use it.

I mean if your husbands relationship with BIL is so bad that he can’t even borrow an old cheap for a couple of days then this is just the tip of the iceberg. Maybe your husband should just have a straightforward chat with him and go no contact as it seems their relationship isn’t worth much anyway and that would solve future hassle.

When I borrowed my parents car for a few weeks I had it professionally cleaned before giving it back. Not that I'd got it partially dirty, it was just a nice gesture to say thank you. It's called treating other people's property with respect. Your first post makes it clear your BIL does not show respect for people in general, so I wouldn't trust him with your car either.

Start again, this time ask your parents / another trusted friend to help find you a car.