FIL 'took' Our car!

[LostMyCar]

Evening all,

I'll start by saying that I've NC as I don't want this linked with my previous posts. This is a long one so I do apologise in advance...

Dh and I live abroad and will be visiting the UK for a couple of months next month. We've been looking for a cheap car to use for the month with the intention of reselling when we leave.

FIL has been kind enough to help with the search and the other night found a good deal. He went to view the car and arranged to buy it the next day. FIL had 1k of our money (from selling a car last year) and we transferred the remaining balance of the car over. We're excited that we've got a good deal and BIL mentions that he might want to buy the car off us when we leave. Great!

The next day DH gets a message from FIL to say that he and BIL are on the way to collect the car. All good. Then BIL sends a message to the group chat saying he's going to need to borrow our car whilst his car is getting an MOT. He doesn't ask, he assumes.

Bit of backstory - BIL (by Dh's own admission) is an immature man child who is often reckless and verbally abusive when he doesn't get his own way. He can't hold down a job and FIL is constantly bailing him out of messy situations. FIL is definitely his enabler.
DH says no I'm really sorry but I don't want you using my car. I'm not buying it for someone else to use. FIL gets angry at this as asks why BIL is good enough to pick the car up then? DH says he thought FIL would be driving our car and BIL would drive FIL's car back. Had he have known this wasn't the case, we could have asked someone else to collect the car.

Anyway, it's all blown into a huge argument. FIL phoned DH and did nothing but shout and scream. How can he not trust his brother? He's trying to get his life together! DH reiterated that he didn't want to upset BIL but he doesn't want him having access to our car. It ended with FIL telling DH to go fuck himself and to get someone to come and collect our car off his drive way that night. Whilst all this is going on, BIL sends a message to DH saying our car drives like a dream to further antagonise the situation.

I phone my parents and ask them (1.5 hour round trip) if they would mind collecting the car from FIL and driving it to MIL's house as she has space in her garage for it. My parents kindly agreed to do so. DH messages FIL to say that my parents will collect the car from him when he's ready. A few minutes later, FIL messages DH and says that the car isn't ours, it's his. He's keeping it and then he transferred our money back to us. So now we have no car.

We suspect FIL will end up giving BIL the car. We now also suspect that BIL was probably always going to use our car instead of his own (on its way out) secretly before we return to the UK.

AIBU to think FIL and BIL have both acted like twats? DH is really upset that his father has treated him this way and I'm furious at the way FIL has spoken to DH. I'm sure in time, DH will forgive them both which is fine but AIBU to want nothing more to do with them?

Thank you if you've made it this far 🙏

@LostMyCar when your relative bought the car, there will have been paperwork signed to say who the new owner is. Was the new owner your FIL? In which case, he always owned it and the paperwork will be in his name.

If your DH signed the paperwork then he is the new owner. Which is it?

That's a good point... one of the insurance questions is always who is the car registered to. Would have to be to someone with a UK address.

@LostMyCar just to add - it's really important that you check who is the legal owner of the car now. They have to pay any fines incurred on the car, as well as make sure it is taxed and MOTed.

I can only assume that FIL bought the car and it's in his name and registered to his address. Possibly as a favour to his sons - and he's no doubt very upset that it hasn't worked out with both of his sons being able to use the car (as would seem sensible). As a non-UK resident I imagine it would be hard for you to get it insured - and he probably knew that so was being helpful by getting the car insured so you could use it whilst in the UK. I feel rather sorry for FIL here as it sounds like he's gone really out of his way to help you and DH out (as well as offer a car to BIL in the long run) and you don't seem to understand how tricky this would be without his help and a UK address.

Definitely don't cut off your ties with his family over this.

Tbf it's registered keeper...not owner that's important. But yes guessing that would be FIL but OP provided the funds.
The insurance question is interesting.
But also how did they imagine FIL was going to collect it if not with BIL help...in which case ask the question who is driving what.

OP and her DH are mostly annoyed because under the original plan they were paying for the car and hoping to get all the money back - at BILs expense.
Now although they haven't lost any money it sounds like FIL with gift the car to BIL so he is getting a free car and they are jealous.

What should have happened all along was FIL to purchase and keep the car with the expectation that both sons get to use it as needed.

Interesting.

Your FIL had done you both a significant favour, with help from your BIL (were you expecting FIL somehow to get himself to the new car under his own steam?).
You're obviously not that bothered about BIL potentially drink-driving as you were planning to sell him the car when you'd finished.
In this scenario, if my brother had suggested he should use my car while his was going through MOT my response would have been 'yes, that makes sense' - a car currently unused and that he would be buying from you in a few months.

It reads like your husband has been annoyed on previous occasions by his brother so has reached the stage where he can't react normally to him. It's all a bit dramatic, isn't it?

My god. Rough as nails

Would he think twice about having a Tinder date in the car? No. In fact, he'd probably boast about it

So what?! This is a car you literally only want to use yourself for ONE MONTH. Who gives a shit if someone else drives it? It’s a cheap second-hand car; it’s already been driven by umpteen people already.

Your DH is being incredibly petty, prissy and uptight about a complete non-issue and this is his fault.

I've come to the conclusion that when siblings fall out over a car... it's best for the parent(s) to stay out of it. My daughter promised (in writing) to give her first car to her younger brother as an incentive for him to pass his test - extremely altruistic of her, my son was very grateful, he went with her and my father to look at an "upgrade" car for her, and was very excited.

Then her boyfriend's car broke down (minor repairs), and suddenly, my son is told that the BF is going to "borrow" the car which is, technically, his (he paid her a tenner for it, if I remember rightly). Son said that was fine, how long would the repairs take. "Oh, a few days...". Well, that was 8 or 9 months ago. What's worse is that BF lost his license for drink driving (BF's mother told me, I haven't told them that I know... and I won't be doing so. They're all adults and daughter has her own home with the cocklodger of a BF...). So now daughter is having to ferry BF around literally everywhere, whilst there are two perfectly decent cars sat rotting on her driveway., Son refuses to talk to her, took some time, saved up his wages - and bought an MG as his first car, which he and my father are bonding over as they "do it up" together. And they're having a great time with... car stuff.

Do I see this rift between siblings being healed. Probably not. And all because BF got greedy (daughter's first car was a better model, or something, than his... and he's generally quite selfish.)

@LostMyCar - if I were you, I'd advise DH to give his father a bit of time to calm down, then calmly explain to him your reasons. But you never know, your dream car might yet be waiting...

I think you’re all as bad as each other

FIL & BIL sound like a pair of complete numbskulls.
I would keep all future interactions to a very surface level and never trust or rely on them with anything important.

I don't understand why people are saying you are the problem.

This isn't about the car specifically; it's about always having to facilitate BIL when he has been untrustworthy in the past. Why couldn't he borrow his FIL car, why couldn't he just chill while his MOT is done like the rest of the population?

Thats shit for you regarding the car- hopefully you can find another one as soon as you get back.

Op how did you think FIL was going to collect the car without help? Magic Carpet?

Why is it OK for you to force the BIL to drive FILs car but not yours?

Your the people who want people to do you favours. It seems all take and no give.

Thus

Oh give over, it was obvious from the OP that BIL can’t be trusted, OP said he “is an immature man child who is often reckless and verbally abusive when he doesn't get his own way. He can't hold down a job and FIL is constantly bailing him out of messy situations.”

You sound as bad as the BIL and FIL.

Honestly this scenario is so bizarre.

Mixed feelings. In a normal situation, after all the work fil and bil did doing you a big favour, why on earth couldn't they borrow the car for a bit while you aren't using it?

On the other hand there are fair reasons why you might not be comfortable. I've known someone who has a habit of having accidents, for example, and wouldn't get in their car with them let alone let them use mine.

FIL has paid you back in full so I'd just make other arrangements for a car at this point, that don't involve them.

Put this right up there with Ripley's Believe it or Not. To basically steal your car, whether he paid you for it or not, is way out of bounds. I would not be involved with them again. I know it's your husbands family but I would still have nothing to do with them.

@BarcardiWithGadaffia This may have been a typo, but it's given me the best laugh I've had in ages.
😂

They didn't steal it! They facilitated the purchase, then reneged on the deal.

Sounds like everyone’s in the wrong to me.

How exactly did you expect FIL to collect it without BIL’s involvement?

Did your DH specify to his father that he didn’t want his brother driving the car before it was purchased?

Was the receipt, registered keeper, tax, insurance all in your/DH’s name? Or was it all in FIL’s name just funded by you both?

Regardless, FIL should not have kicked off in the way you describe. And if BIL drinks and drives then of course he’s an arsehole.

I’ll stand up for you on the basic concept of buying and selling on though - it can work out cheaper if you have the money up front to buy a decent car.

I'm on FILs side in all of this.

As pp have said, he did you a big favour. You keep saying he offered, but that doesn't detract from the fact that it was a favour.

You also keep saying that you never asked BIL to help but it sounds as if FIL needed his help.

I think it was very mean of your dh to say no in these circumstances and of course it was petty and inflammatory.

I love that FIL outmanoeuvred you and you now need to find another car without their help.

All the stuff about tinder dates just reinforces my view.

I can't help but agree, and if OP and her DH make a fuss like this over every little thing I would find it extremely wearying.

FIL gets my support as well.

How was fil supposed to drive 2 cars back?
Someone had to go with him to drive one of the cars back.
Unless it was a short walk away, but that doesnt stop Bil going along with fil.

As for the borrowing of the new car, I suppose if I wasnt asked, just told , it would get my back up. But not necessarily enough to start a row this huge.

Sorry but you were all a bit ott here (your bil just saying and then your dh kicking off) and it just took off from there. It’s insane (but brilliant in a mad genius way, I’m sorry but it is) that your fil did what he did. I’d say it will take your whole family some time to get over this though