FIL 'took' Our car!

[LostMyCar]

Evening all,

I'll start by saying that I've NC as I don't want this linked with my previous posts. This is a long one so I do apologise in advance...

Dh and I live abroad and will be visiting the UK for a couple of months next month. We've been looking for a cheap car to use for the month with the intention of reselling when we leave.

FIL has been kind enough to help with the search and the other night found a good deal. He went to view the car and arranged to buy it the next day. FIL had 1k of our money (from selling a car last year) and we transferred the remaining balance of the car over. We're excited that we've got a good deal and BIL mentions that he might want to buy the car off us when we leave. Great!

The next day DH gets a message from FIL to say that he and BIL are on the way to collect the car. All good. Then BIL sends a message to the group chat saying he's going to need to borrow our car whilst his car is getting an MOT. He doesn't ask, he assumes.

Bit of backstory - BIL (by Dh's own admission) is an immature man child who is often reckless and verbally abusive when he doesn't get his own way. He can't hold down a job and FIL is constantly bailing him out of messy situations. FIL is definitely his enabler.
DH says no I'm really sorry but I don't want you using my car. I'm not buying it for someone else to use. FIL gets angry at this as asks why BIL is good enough to pick the car up then? DH says he thought FIL would be driving our car and BIL would drive FIL's car back. Had he have known this wasn't the case, we could have asked someone else to collect the car.

Anyway, it's all blown into a huge argument. FIL phoned DH and did nothing but shout and scream. How can he not trust his brother? He's trying to get his life together! DH reiterated that he didn't want to upset BIL but he doesn't want him having access to our car. It ended with FIL telling DH to go fuck himself and to get someone to come and collect our car off his drive way that night. Whilst all this is going on, BIL sends a message to DH saying our car drives like a dream to further antagonise the situation.

I phone my parents and ask them (1.5 hour round trip) if they would mind collecting the car from FIL and driving it to MIL's house as she has space in her garage for it. My parents kindly agreed to do so. DH messages FIL to say that my parents will collect the car from him when he's ready. A few minutes later, FIL messages DH and says that the car isn't ours, it's his. He's keeping it and then he transferred our money back to us. So now we have no car.

We suspect FIL will end up giving BIL the car. We now also suspect that BIL was probably always going to use our car instead of his own (on its way out) secretly before we return to the UK.

AIBU to think FIL and BIL have both acted like twats? DH is really upset that his father has treated him this way and I'm furious at the way FIL has spoken to DH. I'm sure in time, DH will forgive them both which is fine but AIBU to want nothing more to do with them?

Thank you if you've made it this far 🙏

I said I’ve bought and sold loads of cheap cars for cash with no receipt. In those circumstances there is no way to prove ownership but who gives a shit for a couple of £k. Anything more than that I’d always ensure receipts are in place.

2k is quite a lot of money to most people. Regardless with no other evidence do you not think the registered keeper would be considered the owner?

In the grand scheme of things £2k isn’t a lot when it comes to cars. Of course the RK wouldn’t be considered the owner in any circumstance. If there was no other evidence then you would be unable to prove who the owner was/wasn’t. The only thing you can say is that the RK might be the owner.

No, not at all. Even if you pay cash and there’s no finance agreement. Often people will buy cars for other people. The buyer is not the owner.

Well, yeah. Ultimately the invoice is the main way to prove ownership, alternatively you could write a receipt and both sign it to say you were gifting the car or similar.

No, the only way to prove legal ownership is the Logbook.

Have you looked at one recently?

Whether is not it is a lot for specifically for a car is irrelevant. It is still quite a lot of money. Most people would want a receipt to prove they had transferred the money.

You really have no clue what you’re talking about do you?

You’d think so but you’d be amazed how many cars I’ve sold privately over the years and had to remind people that they might want a receipt.

The best I had was not receipt related but I sold a car on eBay, the buyer turned up, gave me the cash, filled in the paperwork took the keys and left. Didn’t even look it over, sit in it, start it or anything, absolutely crazy.

Please just go away. You’re deliberately talking rubbish to get responses. That or you’re really really stupid. I’m not sure.

@LostMyCar if I were you I'd try to see it from BIL and FIL's side as well. Fil shouldn't have lost his temper but I'd be upset if one of my kids was so direct about not trusting the other and completely unwilling to help them despite it not impacting them to do so at all-its not nice is it?? The car is a cheap run around, unless I've interpreted things wrongly it's not high value item that you're precious about and it's insured (presumably) so he can't really do any harm in using it. There'd be no question in my family that we'd help each other out and I'd be hurt if it was made so plain I was untrustworthy. It feels quite harsh.

It's a little rude he just expected to borrow it too rather than asking but your DH pretty much told him what you both think of him and you have to have expected a reaction. I personally wouldn't have refused to let him drive it, worst case I'd have got my parents to pick it up and say I'd promised to lend it to someone else if I felt that strongly. A white lie to save someones feelings is sometimes better than a hurtful truth IMO.

This! Protesting so strongly re BIL driving the car in the first place was unreasonable. But FIL then going on to keep the car is just batshit. A power play if you ask me! You’re all unreasonable, sorry!

@Eskimal @Jegersur the log book says on the front of it that it's not proof of ownership. I'm not sure why you're so offended by the facts @Shade17 is presenting.

No, I’m stating facts, you’re the one making yourself look like a fool. You’ve proven that you’re incapable of using Google and are still commenting on something that you clearly know precisely bugger all about.

BIL was always going to buy it when you left the country so I guess he now just gets it a few weeks early. Love that it worked out for them. Have you bought another one yet?

We are talking about who can legally sell the car. The ownership debate is only relevant if the car is in finance.
If the FIL is the registered keeper on the log book he is the only one who can sell the car

That’s just not true either. You can absolutely sell a car without being the RK. Where are you getting this nonsense from?

BIL and FIL sound horrific. I’d cut contact!

"We are talking about who can legally sell the car. The ownership debate is only relevant if the car is in finance.
If the FIL is the registered keeper on the log book he is the only one who can sell the car"

If I was to try and sell my car to a corporation like we buy any car etc, they would be right to question why my name wasn't on the logbook if I was trying to sell it and it's probably one of the checks they could refuse to buy my car for but that's because of their checks, not the law for example. Many married couples have the others name on a car. I used to work in insurance and regularly someone else's name is on the logbook and as long as that's declared, no issues.

When you take the logbook out of your name, that's to say you are no longer responsible for the tax, roadworthiness etc. mostly, that's done at the same time as a sale which is where this misconception comes from.

Sorry that's was in response to you @Eskimal

It's incredible to me that you thought it was ok to ask fil to source, buy, collect and store the car - but won't let bil, who he needed to help him, drive it while his own car has its mot.

He's buying it after you leave anyway.

You and dp are really mean and entitled. Even asking your parents to do a big journey to collect it from fil's house feels cheeky.

You want all this assistance but don't want to help anyone else.

It's incredible to me that you posted all that waffle without RTFT.

OP does help others. She said:

We have let BIL live with us temporarily in the past whilst he was working nearby. We spent a chunk of money setting him up and covering his costs. We even spent a lot of time trying to help him with his finances and to help him get out of debt.

FIL wanted to help. Others also wanted to help but we accepted FIL's help because if we didn't, he would be upset. If we had known FIL's favour came with strings attached, we'd have said no thanks.

"It's incredible to me that you posted all that waffle without RTFT."

I RTFT and have commented several times.

I am referring to the current situation not historical support.

Most people wouldn't consider letting bil drive the car while his car has a mot as 'strings.'

I am allowed to read the same thread as you and perceive things differently.

Luckily op can now call on all of those other willing helpers to buy a car for her.