FIL 'took' Our car!

[LostMyCar]

Evening all,

I'll start by saying that I've NC as I don't want this linked with my previous posts. This is a long one so I do apologise in advance...

Dh and I live abroad and will be visiting the UK for a couple of months next month. We've been looking for a cheap car to use for the month with the intention of reselling when we leave.

FIL has been kind enough to help with the search and the other night found a good deal. He went to view the car and arranged to buy it the next day. FIL had 1k of our money (from selling a car last year) and we transferred the remaining balance of the car over. We're excited that we've got a good deal and BIL mentions that he might want to buy the car off us when we leave. Great!

The next day DH gets a message from FIL to say that he and BIL are on the way to collect the car. All good. Then BIL sends a message to the group chat saying he's going to need to borrow our car whilst his car is getting an MOT. He doesn't ask, he assumes.

Bit of backstory - BIL (by Dh's own admission) is an immature man child who is often reckless and verbally abusive when he doesn't get his own way. He can't hold down a job and FIL is constantly bailing him out of messy situations. FIL is definitely his enabler.
DH says no I'm really sorry but I don't want you using my car. I'm not buying it for someone else to use. FIL gets angry at this as asks why BIL is good enough to pick the car up then? DH says he thought FIL would be driving our car and BIL would drive FIL's car back. Had he have known this wasn't the case, we could have asked someone else to collect the car.

Anyway, it's all blown into a huge argument. FIL phoned DH and did nothing but shout and scream. How can he not trust his brother? He's trying to get his life together! DH reiterated that he didn't want to upset BIL but he doesn't want him having access to our car. It ended with FIL telling DH to go fuck himself and to get someone to come and collect our car off his drive way that night. Whilst all this is going on, BIL sends a message to DH saying our car drives like a dream to further antagonise the situation.

I phone my parents and ask them (1.5 hour round trip) if they would mind collecting the car from FIL and driving it to MIL's house as she has space in her garage for it. My parents kindly agreed to do so. DH messages FIL to say that my parents will collect the car from him when he's ready. A few minutes later, FIL messages DH and says that the car isn't ours, it's his. He's keeping it and then he transferred our money back to us. So now we have no car.

We suspect FIL will end up giving BIL the car. We now also suspect that BIL was probably always going to use our car instead of his own (on its way out) secretly before we return to the UK.

AIBU to think FIL and BIL have both acted like twats? DH is really upset that his father has treated him this way and I'm furious at the way FIL has spoken to DH. I'm sure in time, DH will forgive them both which is fine but AIBU to want nothing more to do with them?

Thank you if you've made it this far 🙏

BIL sounds grabby. He wants whatever your DH has. Truly pathetic.

I get why you did it as we tried to rent a car a month and as it was a 7 seater it would be a minimum of £270 a day plus deposit .
Your mistake was trusting Fil . Did he return your money ? At least op ?

It's literally in the opening post:
"A few minutes later, FIL messages DH and says that the car isn't ours, it's his. He's keeping it and then he transferred our money back to us. "

Where are you leaving the new car? As BiL will be using it if he knows where it is.....

BIL can't access the car at all. It's safe.

Good news!

FIL messages DH and says that the car isn't ours, it's his. He's keeping it and then he transferred our money back to us. So now we have no car.

The OP and her DH are not resident in the UK and as expats would have paid a significant premium to insure a car here. From the above, they avoided this by sending money to FIL to buy a car and insure it in his name even though they believed the car was theirs.

Their scheme has backfired. FIL has returned the money and kept the car. He can do this as the car is officially in his name.

In terms of the insurance, I don't know the ins and out. My DH deals with it as he's the one who will be driving the car. I know when you buy a new car, you can buy temporary insurance for an hour whilst you drive it home. Details of insurance is irrelevant anyway because it's not the purpose of the thread.

Little wonder the OP does not want to discuss the ins and outs of insurance. What the OP and her DH planned on doing is 'fronting' and this is considered as committing insurance fraud.

Most people see favors as reciprocal. I guess with you it's a one way street. Good luck the next time you make demands on your husbands family.

How to you expect FIL's car to get home if he was driving yours?

This.

My ex-husband and all his brothers are totally lazy and feckless people but are all good drivers 🤷‍♀️

Your husband was totally weird not letting his brother drive the car, especially as he and FIL were doing a massive favour for you guys.

In what way is it relevant?

only the person named on the log book can decide who the car belongs to, or decide to buy or sell. If FIL had his name in the log book all along then he didn’t “take” the car at all.

That’s hilarious. The log book merely details who’s responsible for taxing the car and to whom parking tickets, speeding tickets etc are served. It has NOTHING whatsoever to do with the ownership of the car.

Huh? How is it weird to not want someone you neither like nor trust using your car? Ime that’s standard.

FIL offered to help them, and made no mention of BIL’s involvement until later. If his involvement had been made clear at the beginning I imagine OP and her DH would have declined the offer.

Why didn't you want BIL to use the car whilst you weren't using it? Especially as he might have bought it from you once you have finished with it after the month.

It's a cheap car that you are only going to use for a month. Do you really care if a family member uses it until you get here?

All seems a bit silly tbh!

These situations are tricky because clearly your BiL is a tricky customer and you both sensibly want to distance yourself as much as possible (we have one of these people in our lives and I totally get it, all the people saying "what harm would it do" don't know that when you give an inch they take a mile and before you know it BiL is stroppy that you want to drive your own car, or he's sold it or he's crashed it.)
However, your FiL obviously doesn't want to see this, and I think all he's done is said "I'm not doing you the favour anymore", your post is wrong, he hasn't stolen it. He gave you the money back. It causes you agro and stress to find a new one when out of the UK but he hasn't taken it and refused you your money, other than time you are no worse off. He's within his rights to do this, it's a bit of a d**k move but he is entitled to do it.
I'd suggest, given he's clearly close to his son, if you don't want BiL around your business then ask your parents for help or favours not FiL, as it will inevitably lead to BiL getting involved. I wouldn't hold it against FiL he clearly felt defensive of his son, flew off the handle and will calm down and you'll all make up. I think he probably feels hard done by, in that he'd done you a big favour and then you've insulted his child. It'll all pass over buy next time don't ask for his help because BiL will be involved

Oh dear. Have you never bought or sold a car privately ? The name on log book is the person who transferrs the ownership to the new buyer. If the FIL was the person whose name it was transferred to as the new buyer then he can keep the car or sell the car. The husband is powerless. If the logbook was transferred to the name of the husband when bought, then the FIL is powerless to keep it or gift it to BIL.

Clearly you never have. The V5C has nothing to do with ownership. Why would you comment on something you clearly know absolutely nothing about? Have you ever seen a V5C?

You’ve been selfish and immature. You’ve caused the drama. End of. Shouldn’t be an issue with your own family using your car when you’re not using it. Especially as you live abroad and don’t see them often would have been nice of you.

Are you one of those people who comes on here just to cause trouble?
how do you legally track the owner of a vehicle if you don’t do it via the V5C?

Lol! You can only track the ownership of a vehicle through invoices, finance agreements etc. As I said before the V5C only shows who’s responsible for taxing it etc, the Registered Keeper. The RC may or may not be the legal owner but the two things are entirely separate. 30 seconds on Google will tell you this as will the V5C itself.

I'd cut the toxic pair out of my lives. I'd not speak to them or visit them or have them visit my house again.

Who buys the car is completely different to who owns it, so finance deals etc are irrelevant.

You said earlier that you don't give or receive receipts when you buy or sell cars so how would you prove ownership?

If you mean an active finance agreement then yes it’ll belong to the finance company. Once settled though I guess you could use it to prove ownership.