FIL 'took' Our car!

[LostMyCar]

Evening all,

I'll start by saying that I've NC as I don't want this linked with my previous posts. This is a long one so I do apologise in advance...

Dh and I live abroad and will be visiting the UK for a couple of months next month. We've been looking for a cheap car to use for the month with the intention of reselling when we leave.

FIL has been kind enough to help with the search and the other night found a good deal. He went to view the car and arranged to buy it the next day. FIL had 1k of our money (from selling a car last year) and we transferred the remaining balance of the car over. We're excited that we've got a good deal and BIL mentions that he might want to buy the car off us when we leave. Great!

The next day DH gets a message from FIL to say that he and BIL are on the way to collect the car. All good. Then BIL sends a message to the group chat saying he's going to need to borrow our car whilst his car is getting an MOT. He doesn't ask, he assumes.

Bit of backstory - BIL (by Dh's own admission) is an immature man child who is often reckless and verbally abusive when he doesn't get his own way. He can't hold down a job and FIL is constantly bailing him out of messy situations. FIL is definitely his enabler.
DH says no I'm really sorry but I don't want you using my car. I'm not buying it for someone else to use. FIL gets angry at this as asks why BIL is good enough to pick the car up then? DH says he thought FIL would be driving our car and BIL would drive FIL's car back. Had he have known this wasn't the case, we could have asked someone else to collect the car.

Anyway, it's all blown into a huge argument. FIL phoned DH and did nothing but shout and scream. How can he not trust his brother? He's trying to get his life together! DH reiterated that he didn't want to upset BIL but he doesn't want him having access to our car. It ended with FIL telling DH to go fuck himself and to get someone to come and collect our car off his drive way that night. Whilst all this is going on, BIL sends a message to DH saying our car drives like a dream to further antagonise the situation.

I phone my parents and ask them (1.5 hour round trip) if they would mind collecting the car from FIL and driving it to MIL's house as she has space in her garage for it. My parents kindly agreed to do so. DH messages FIL to say that my parents will collect the car from him when he's ready. A few minutes later, FIL messages DH and says that the car isn't ours, it's his. He's keeping it and then he transferred our money back to us. So now we have no car.

We suspect FIL will end up giving BIL the car. We now also suspect that BIL was probably always going to use our car instead of his own (on its way out) secretly before we return to the UK.

AIBU to think FIL and BIL have both acted like twats? DH is really upset that his father has treated him this way and I'm furious at the way FIL has spoken to DH. I'm sure in time, DH will forgive them both which is fine but AIBU to want nothing more to do with them?

Thank you if you've made it this far 🙏

@MillionsofYearsintheMaking I know that but that doesn't mean OPs DH isn't doing that anyway. It depends how long they've been out of the UK. They cannot apply for or renew a licence using an overseas address but if DH has a UK licence already, it could be "valid" for up to 10 years. Buying a car for a couple of months to save a few quid as opposed to hiring a car doesn't exactly suggest that everything is being done by the book. The whole plan is a fudge, the car, the insurance and whatnot. Would OPs DH have been insured as the main driver with an overseas driving licence and overseas address? Of course not.

Usually ppl are funny about giving their stuff away to ppl who take the piss. I get the impression the bil has form and that's why DH didn't want to lend him the car. To be fair it's his car he paid for it and the reaction from the fil is disgusting really. And if it wasn't that much of a big deal why didn't the fil give his own car to the bil ... why do they have to take the new car they just got.

More fool you.

Op why didn't your fil offer his own car to your bil instead of going into one at your hubby and does someone really need another car for the short space of time they don't have their own car.. my point is your fil reaction was disgusting. I can understand if he'd been annoyed and made the odd comment ... but this reaction is like you wouldn't offer your kidneys to the bil to save his life not an issue to do with borrowing a car 🤦‍♀️

@HisNibs Agree but this sort of smacks of hypocrisy doesn't it. We will fudge DLVA and UK insurance requirements to get a cheap vehicle whilst we are in the UK but then look down on BIL as being the feckless irresponsible member of the family.

My concern about fudging this type of stuff is that it is all fine until it isn't. God forbid you are involved in a fatal RTA in this vehicle - or seriously injured someone. Do we expect the Insurers to turn a blind eye?

Yes, I’m pretty sure that the OP must be doing something illegal. They won’t be able to get the car insured (not at normal cheaper rates) if they don’t live here, and it’s illegal to drive without insurance.

Meh. For a couple of grand who gives a shit? Obviously with anything worth decent money or from a dealer it makes sense.

Absolutely @MillionsofYearsintheMaking , no-one in this thread has the moral high ground the way it reads. BIL is a CF, FIL overreacts but then is there any surprise when the help he gave (freely) had conditions imposed by DH that he wasn't happy with. DH and OP look to be trying to bend the rules to suit themselves and save a few quid. To answer Ops question "AIBU to think FIL and BIL have both acted like twats?"... BIL and FIL are not the only ones.

Imagine asking your dad to help you is 'using ppl" you were very polite in your response I'm struggling not to say something harsh!!

Oh this sounds so tough!

You need to remember that saying "when someone shows you who they are, listen".

Regardless of what Mumsnet have said, YaNBU to say he can't use your car. His reaction and FIL following is an unreasonable reaction. Transferring the money back, even pettier. I'd be cutting them off and I certainly wouldn't be visiting them if you don't want to cut them off.

Do you enjoy a bit of drama? I can't imagine being this petty.

BIL might invite a tinder date into your car? And?

No wonder your FIL reacted how he did. I bet he's sick of you both.

Yip they are also expecting family to store the car for them as well.
And I'll take a guess family will also get the joy of hosting them for their 2 month long holiday.

It seems to me you are making a big deal out of a used car that you are only going to be using a couple of months. This is not a hill to die on, IMO.

What about people who've lived here, passed their test here, surely they are still registered with the DVLA?

I’m with you OP—you’re clearly not just being asked to return a favour here. This is more of a bait and switch situation involving a BIL that the FIL surely already knew isn’t well-liked or trusted by yr husband. I think if most people thought about analogous possibilities in their own lives they wouldn’t be pleased with this scenario at all.

Only until their licence needs renewing (which is currently every 10 years). The DVLA will only accept new applications and renewals from a UK resident. If a UK person moves to another country for more than 12 months, they will have to get a local driving licence for the country they are in. It's the same for someone coming to the UK for more than 12 months. It is a criminal offence to use someone else’s UK address such as that of a family member or friend to obtain or renew a driving licence.

I used to live overseas and this UK driving license issue used to come up a lot on local expat forums. Most people got a local driving license (or an international driving license) - which you can get based off your UK license without taking additional tests (at least where I lived). When travelling back to the UK they then used the local/international license to hire cars.

Car hire companies will hire to you based on your UK license - e.g. they don't question it. The concern on these forums always was if you are not UK resident and rely solely on your UK driving license when hiring/driving in the UK Insurers may try and use this as a reason to reject a claim if you have an accident. May be being over cautious but there was a lot of discussion around it.

As PP have noted - the bigger risk is trying to renew a license when not a resident by using a UK address.

I'm gobsmacked that anyone thinks this is ok!! I'm sure the OP and her DH know whether her BiL can be trusted (not, as it seems). But in any case, it's a very large assumption that the BiL could drive it. Is it even insured for him to drive?

BTW, to those who think this is odd thing to do, this is pretty common for many people. Car hire is very expensive and fraught with problems.

Well somebody was going to have to go with FiL to collect the car, either BiL or someone else. Are all these people insured to drive each others cars? I can see why you and DH didn't want everyone assuming BiL could use your car until you are back. However, poor FiL was stuck in the middle when he's trying to help everyone out. Nobody has come out a winner, except perhaps BiL if he is simply given the car.

Acted like complete prats! It’s irrelevant if the OP has chosen to buy a car instead of hire. This sounds exactly like my Mum with my brother, just throw their toys out of the pram if they don’t get their own way

I think it was wrong of BIL to assume he could use the car without asking & can see how that might be the final straw.

Ridiculous to assume he wouldn't drive it if he went with FIL to collect though.

I'm guessing it was all in FIL's name if he could just pay money back & assume ownership?

I’ve never had to renew my licence.

@Jegersur The photocard has to be renewed every 10 years

Ah, I see. I don’t have a photo one.

He's returned the money though