to not have realised how abusive and horrible men were until I joined MN

[geoger]

Been on MN a while now and I must admit that it has really opened my eyes to how abusive and horrible some men are. I’m not ignorant, I know that men can be violent, controlling, abusive etc - I read loads, watch the news and documentaries but I just didn’t realise the depths of depravity some men reach. Every day there are threads where women are physically, emotionally, financially and sexually abused by their so called ‘d’ h/p that I find really worrying and distressing.
Some of these threads still play on my mind and I worry for the women who posted them.
I feel so stupid and naive and trusting. MN has really opened my eyes. Has anybody else experienced this worry for other women on here or am I just living in a bubble?
I know this is AIBU but please no bashing

Oh yeah. The men’s sections on Reddit are ridiculous too. I have more in common with the most the women on here as i do with the nut job male advocates on there

An informed decision about what?

I've made an informed decision to view you as a purveyor of bullshit, and poorly understood 'statistics', with an unbalanced view of the basic reality of most women's lives, worldwide.

Funnily enough, even you made this observation on another thread, just this week: "Men have hormones too tbf. Testosterone is a huge factor governing their behaviour and their increased propensity for violence."

‘Some form of abuse’ is a ridiculously broad definition

i would go further and say that every human i know has had ‘some form of abuse’ off a man AND a woman

@ThinkingOfMe · Today 00:11

I think women here need to remember that some men really do get off on plonking themselves in the middle of a predominately women’s group and saying anything to get attention from those women.

We see it quite often on mumsnet, some admit to being men, some don’t. It often comes out. They crave attention from women presumably because they don’t get much of it in real life. I mean, imagine a man in real life saying this stuff to a group of women discussing the abuse at the hands of men. Women would avoid like the plague. Here, they get some engagement.

Very true!

@Dakotabluebell

I think walrus is a man, but if he's not, i do actually have a theory that women who spend a lot of time around blokes in male dominated spaces often develop this "anti women" stance - kind of like "I'm not like those other women, I'm just like you men, I'm on your side, aren't women the worst" as a defence mechanism so that they don't become a victim of male violence too.

Or, it kind of becomes their personality to hate other women because they thrive on any male attention and there's a lot of men out there who lap it up and who are delighted when they find a woman who hates other women. It's sad really, to be so desperate for approval from men.

Maybe that's why they get so upset when they stumble across women who don't give a shit about what men think.

Yeah all of this. Well said!

Also, that pic that one particular poster has posted has proven NOTHING. 😆

But yeah, men coming on here plonking themselves into a thread where women are sharing experiences and solidarity about the way many women are treated by men, and NAMALTing all over it, and blathering about how awful WOMEN are is actually quite sickening. And, as you say, it is equally as sickening when it's other women doing it. Probably a bit worse actually. As you say, it's like they need approval from men, and have been brainwashed and gaslighted by them.

Personally, I am no longer engaging with these individuals. Not on this thread, or any threads similar to this. They are best ignored. Don't give them the attention they so desperately crave. Repeating the same garbage over and over and over, for a reaction, and to try to upset women. Just don't engage with them. I'm not. Not anymore.

.

Female aggression, violence and predatory behaviour towards males is not an enormous social problem.

Maybe not for you.

We know the biggest DV study ever found that women perpetrate more domestic violence than men. It wasn't a 'dodgy study' as some posters are baselessly claiming on here. It was conducted by DV experts from UK/US/Canada and analysed 1700 peer reviewed studies to reach this conclusion.

The charity Mankind also found that men were over twice as likely to state that they'd considered suicide after being a victim of DV.

And lo and behold, suicide is the most common cause death in men under 50, with men being 4x more likely to kill themselves.

Women don't need to kill men. The abused men do it themselves, which is unsurprising given the lack of support for male victims, the absolute focus on female victims, and society's disdain for 'weak' men. Only 5% of abused men are receiving support but it's still all about helping the women.

We all heard the phrase 'boys don't cry' while growing up. They don't. They kill themselves instead.

No point arguing with me. The stats are irrefutable.

You must have posted 100 times on this thread. Often long and didactic, a la blowhard. There clearly is no point 'arguing' with you, it's true. Get help.

Women are more likely to attempt suicide, men are just more likely to succeed. Largely due to the method they use using being more violent and more likely to result in death.

The reasons often revolve around Male toxicity. Men believing they should look tough, not talk about weaknesses/struggles etc. Financial and work pressures.

They’re not killing themselves because women drive them to it. Nice try though but just more twisting the narrative from you. I’m not shocked.

As PP pointed out, men are more likely to suceed in suicide attempts due to methods used. This is uncontested. The age group with the highest proportion of male suicide is 50-54. The three key triggers are untreated or poorly treated mental illness, substance abuse and financial pressure, with violence from women not cited amongst the causes.
I say this only because attempts to the misrepresent the cause of these tragic deaths as part of an anti women crusade is actually dangerous for men. Unless we understand the true cause of an issue we cannot target preventative and supportive action in the right direction. To be blunt, there is no point in building refuges for men on the basis of a myth that large numbers are in need of them, when we should be using the resources to treat their mental illness or help them recover from substance use issues, for example.
That's not to say there is no need for support for male DV survivors, merely that the prevalence, severity and risk needs to be measured accurately and seen in proportion, so holistic support for men is delivered appropriately. Inflating those factors that support an anti woman natrative really doesn't help men.

Please can you give details for this study ? Authors, date, title, journal?

Just to add, there is a danger in reading stats backwards. In this case concluding from the fact that many male DV survivors report suicidal thoughts, that DV is a leading cause of male suicide. Many pedophiles report suicidal thoughts. However we would obviously not conclude from this that men who commit suicide are likely to be pedophiles.

I’m sorry but that’s very misleading what you are saying. It shows a misunderstanding.

You say more men kill themselves because of the method they use. if you are determined to kill yourself you can do so. The same methods are available to men and women.

So why are more men more determined to kill themself? I would suggest 2 huge factors are because of the helplessness of their situation and the lack of effective help available.

Women who are determined to kill themselves use the same methods.

a woman can hang herself just as easily as a man can

People are not just randomly choosing a way to do it. They tend to put a lot of thought into it. If they are determined to die they will try a way that’s most effective.

Thank you.

My friend committed suicide at the age of 50 in 2022. He had severe depression for year.

He also hadn't been in a relationship for many, many years.

WalrusofLove jumps to many unproven conclusions and correlations.

Moreover, he completely dismisses the lived reality of women.

I don't know any women who have never been harassed on the street or made to feel scared by men in their lifetime.

Like I already mentioned on this thread, I have been sexually assaulted twice in public.

Once as a little girl, once as an adult.

Of course not all men! But enough men to make me not walk alone in a deserted park or alone at night. Enough men to make me scared for my two small daughters. And enough men to make me scared for my son as well.

There has never been any point in arguing with you, that was clear from your first post.
I ask now what support you want for men. Do they need somewhere to get away from women or some other kind of support?
I don't see male suicide being the fault of women as you seem to, but you are certainly correct in saying that more men do kill themselves than women.

Would this be something that you or the men you work with would be interested in setting up?

I doubt Walrus has given a thought to male suicide until he decided to make use of it as a weapon in an increasingly desperate attempt to hide male violence behind falsehoods about women. Anyone who was remotely concerned about the issue would at minimum have knowledge of the risk factors, and if not 'walking the walk' as they themselves put it, and doing something practical to help, would at least not be hindering things with false information.

It really is curiouser and curiouser. How does one man or woman truck driver, driving 10 hours a day Mon-Fri, manage to find so much time to post such lengthy screeds on MN, and almost all of them quoting statistics proving women and girls are in fact more violent than men.

So women perpetrate more DV but only male perpetrated DV is a societal problem. 🤔 Or is it that people don't care so much about violence against men.

Think of all the films you've watched where a woman slaps a man around the face. Often romcoms which have a mostly female audience. Nobody complains, yet if a man walloped a woman around the face people wouldn't laugh. Does that not evoke some cognitive dissonance?

Have a day off mate.

You being a woman provokes some cognitive dissonance.

Couldn't think of a reply?

Not really. Statistically most women turn away from man hating discourses. I'm just an argumentative sod so Iike to point out the logical fallacies like the fact that despite all the moaning about DV women are the biggest perps.

As well as ‘her’ work on the building site and going to the gym after don’t forget. ‘She’ also fits in mentoring young men as well and is a role model to them. 🤣🤣🤣

Busy, busy.

The people who actually read the stats have known this for years...

Bruised and battered husbands have been complaining for years and now the biggest research project of its kind has proved them right. When it comes to domestic confrontation, women are more violent than men.

The study, which challenges the long-standing view that women are overwhelmingly the victims of aggression, is based on an analysis of 34,000 men and women by a British academic. Women lash out more frequently than their husbands or boyfriends, concludes John Archer, professor of psychology at the University of Central Lancashire and president of the International Society for Research on Aggression.

Professor Archer analysed data from 82 US and UK studies on relationship violence, dating back to 1972. He also looked at 17 studies based on victim reports from 1,140 men and women. Speaking last night, he said that female aggression was greater in westernised women because they were "economically emancipated" and therefore not afraid of ending a relationship.

"Feminist writers say most of the acts against men are not important but the same people have used the same surveys to inflate the number of women who are attacked," he said. "In the past it would not even have been considered that women are violent. My view is that you must base social policy on the whole evidence."

His views are supported by Dr Malcolm George, a lecturer in neuroscience at London University. In a paper to be published next year in the Journal of Men's Studies, Dr George will argue that men have been abused by their wives since Elizabethan times. He uses examples such as the actor John Wayne, beaten by his wife Conchita Martinez, and Humphrey Bogart battered by his wife Mayo Methot, as well as Abraham Lincoln whose wife Mary who broke his nose with a lump of wood.

His research is backed up by historical records which show that men who were beaten by their wives were publicly humiliated in a ceremony called a "skimmington procession". The procession was named after the ladle used to skim milk during cheese making.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/women-are-more-violent-says-study-622388.html

A lot of women hit men in the knowledge that they won't get hit back due to fear of social stigma.

It's odd that I'm the only one who seems to be able to back up my claims with data.

I can signpost you to a report by the Samaritans, the only uk agency that collects all available data on suicide, that will demonstrate that your comments on that issue are false if that helps.