“Women and birthing people. “

[Riapia]

Who said that?
A doula on the PM Programme on BBC R4 tonight between 5.40 and 5.45.

They already did it. The changes you see are the result of those consultations. Personally in the trust i was in, when we did it in about 2014-2015, we advertised a focus group where people could have input. It waa advertised in our SH clinics, fertility clinic, gynae and maternity clinics, newsletter, magazine, emails etc. Only a few people who wanted change turned up. Nobody who opposed these changes. There werent droves of non-person Other women coming to say how bad it all is for women.

A few started to care when the Mail picked it up as an issue and that was it. It has all been a recemt media craze to be so upset about it. Nobody cared before. Most people still dont care.

There's no such thing as "cis". It's the in-group jargon of gender identity ideology, your personal belief system. It's not shared by most people.

I agree @AccidentallyWesAnderson

Oh, I'm all for respecting the identity of individuals in front of me. That's just good manners. What we shouldn't do, however, is rewrite literature and official NHS guidelines because of how a small percentage 'identify'. That's just ludicrous.

A lot of 'most people' being banded about, with not a lot to back it up.

A third of people in some areas of the U.K. don't know that a "trans woman" is a biological male who identifies as a woman. They think it means a biological woman who identifies as a man.

I am going to suggest @Mackmacking works in London, Birmingham or Brighton. The percentage of FTM presenting with a pregnancy is higher in these cities. Of a two natal women couple, one is more musculine. Clothing etc, walk or voice. Isn't it a kindness to ask how you would like to be addressed?
Why is it anyone else's business? They've chosen their partnership. They've paid towards the NHS. They will probably only be there a day.
What we should be worried about is the activists in schools. Adults make their own choices. And I'm sure most women in labour call for their mum, all pronouns out of the bloody window.
@Mackmacking I'm sticking up for you but I hate the sub categories too.

Everybody counts. Including people is better than excluding people. There are an increasing number of people who fit into.this demographic in maternity services. We update literature.every 3-5 years anyway, it doesnt cost more money to make new literature inclusive. It would cost more to have entirely separate literature about things that apply to everyone.

They should receive better education then

Sounds like you are supporting equality, not me.

It is shared by researchers in the field. What is your job?

They should receive better education then

Why? It makes more sense to call women who identify as men, "trans women". I'm all for it.

@Mackmacking I am, I stand corrected.

It is shared by researchers in the field

*some (the captured ones).

No because they transitioned to women.

Women transitioned to women? What are you talking about? I think you're getting tangled up in your own jargon there, @Mackmacking

I'm all for it too. Let's change the language to suit us. It makes more sense as there's no such thing as transitioning. Men cannot transition into women and women can't transition into men, no matter what body modification you do, or what clothes you wear, how you wear your hair, what drugs you take or what you call yourself.

Trans women are people who were assigned male, but transitioned to women. Thats why they are trans women and not trans men

They can and do. Legally, anatomically, socially. There is nothing you can do about it.

They can and do. Legally, anatomically, socially. There is nothing you can do about it.

They can't. Legal fiction is still fiction. Facts are facts.

They don't actually though, @Mackmacking. People know what sex they are. You can't change sex.

Trans women are people who were assigned male, but transitioned to women. Thats why they are trans women and not trans men

But I was talking about female people who some people think of as "trans women". I don't believe in gender identity ideology so it's all equally meaningless to me.

And as an HCP you know that babies' sex isn't decided at their birth, don't you?

my dd is doing her a levels right now - I’ve been testing her on methods in sociological research. She would be able to pull apart a single focus group, in a small part of a single trust where as you say “only a few people who wanted change turned up”.

it doesn’t justify large parts of medical literature disproportionately imposing a “people with …” suffix to the word woman and not doing the same to the word man.

Anatomically? Wow you mean they’ve found a way to change the pelvis on the left to the one on the right??

Plus the focus group was 10 years ago. A LOT has changed in that decade.